Mis-sold Life Insurance Help

magpiecottage

waynebrave wrote: »

Hi, I am in excatly the same boat as you, having been mis-sold life insurance by a Zurich/Open Work rep. Can you tell me the outcome of your claim please and any tips would be helpful too.

Many thanks

WB

Why do you think it was missold?

Nivek

This has been bugging me for a while so hoping somebody can help.

In 1992 I purchased my first property and enlisted the help of an Allied Dunbar FA who had sold me a personal pension some three years prior -He was employed by Allied Dunbar and not just an agent for them.

At the time I was totally green about financial matters ,wanted a mortgage and put my trust in the A.D guy .
He sold me an interest only mortgage and I was to pay that off at the end of it's term with the 25% tax free sum from my PPP. At the time he also sold me , what I thought was, a top up pension for the purpose of helping pay off my mortgage -I paid the sum of £20.48 per month for 3 years before moving jobs and stopping the payments as I joined a company scheme where contributions were 50% employer and 50% employee.

I've now turned 55 and have started to access my pension funds and have told Zurich , who took over Allied Dunbar, that I'd like to cash in this small pot .They advised me that I can't as it it was in fact a 'Personal Life Plan' to provide cover to pay the mortgage in the event of my death . On digging out more of the paperwork the initial letter is entitled 'Personal Pension Plan' and says ' Thank you for your application for a Personal Pension Plan which has been sent to us by our appointed representative ,Mr * ****'

There's no mention of life insurance.

I've also got another piece of paper that says 'Personal Pension Contribution Certificate' (PPCC) at the top ,although on closer inspection I can see that hidden in the blurb down below that it says 'the total monthly contributions to the plan include an amount of £20.07 to provide life assurance benefits'

The point is ,I thought I had an investment and I would never had agreed to Life Cover as I was single ,had no dependents,was in excellent health and wanted to keep my monthly outgoings to a minimum .If I had kicked the bucket I would have been happy for whoever to just hand back the keys.

So, I feel pretty strongly that I have a case here but some advice/opinion would be appreciated.Not sure how to go about claiming -Use the 'Resolver' website or just write to them directly with copies of paperwork ?

Just as a footnote , in case it makes a difference ,the mortgage was arranged with Yorkshire Building Society who I've recently called and they confirmed I paid PPI on my mortgage for the same three years 1992-1995 before stopping payments .Again , It's not something I would have agreed to .I've got the complaint forms from YBS to complete and send back although when I spoke to them on the 'phone they were suggesting my complaint should be taken up with Zurich.

Any help/advice would be appreciated.

Thank You

[Deleted User]

Thread is from 2010!

Nivek

But it seemed relevant to the topic regardless of age. What do I do , start a new thread .Sorry but I very rarely use forums

dunstonh

I've now turned 55 and have started to access my pension funds and have told Zurich , who took over Allied Dunbar, that I'd like to cash in this small pot .They advised me that I can't as it it was in fact a 'Personal Life Plan' to provide cover to pay the mortgage in the event of my death . On digging out more of the paperwork the initial letter is entitled 'Personal Pension Plan' and says ' Thank you for your application for a Personal Pension Plan which has been sent to us by our appointed representative ,Mr * ****'

There's no mention of life insurance.

If the provider says it is a term assurance and you say it is a pension, then could it be a pension term assurance? That product existed back then and was very popular. I arranged many myself (not with Allied Crowbar obviously).

I can see that hidden in the blurb

If it was hidden you wouldnt be able to see it.

The point is ,I thought I had an investment and I would never had agreed to Life Cover as I was single ,had no dependents,was in excellent health and wanted to keep my monthly outgoings to a minimum .If I had kicked the bucket I would have been happy for whoever to just hand back the keys.

I saw a similar complaint at the ombudsman last year whilst reading although that was based on an endowment that never existed. They rejected it as they didnt think it was likely that the consumer realistically would take over 20 years to complain that there was no repayment vehicle when there had never been a statement or a payment made to and investment backed plan.

In your case, you were also ineligible to pay into a pension 3 years after you started it. You confirmed you stop making payments. So, if you believed it was an investment backed plan for your mortgage but stopped it three years after buying it, then what did you do to put in place an alternative?

So, I feel pretty strongly that I have a case here but some advice/opinion would be appreciated.Not sure how to go about claiming -Use the 'Resolver' website or just write to them directly with copies of paperwork ?

We do not have the benefit of the audit trail. However, I am not as confident as you.
1 - you confirmed you cancelled what you had 3 years after taking it out. You dont mention replacing it
2 - the document trail indicates life assurance. Not an investment plan. There have been no statements issued

Resolver is no good for you. You put your complaint direct to Zurich. They will look at your complaint and their copies on file and make a decision. You may get lucky but there are plenty of holes in what you say.

Just as a footnote , in case it makes a difference ,the mortgage was arranged with Yorkshire Building Society who I've recently called and they confirmed I paid PPI on my mortgage for the same three years 1992-1995 before stopping payments .Again , It's not something I would have agreed to .I've got the complaint forms from YBS to complete and send back although when I spoke to them on the 'phone they were suggesting my complaint should be taken up with Zurich.

YBS are not liable for sales made by Zurich. However, YBS wouldnt know what Zurich/AD sold. 1992 is before regulation of general insurance. If it was put in place by the AD rep then its pre-regulation. If YBS put it in place, then they have to consider your complaint.

Nivek

Hi dunstonh , thanks for the reply . The initial acceptance letter states 'Personal Pension Plan' with no mention of Life Assurance , subsequent documents are also headed with the same wording in bold at the top ..if it was a life plan I'm wondering why it wasn't shown clearly as such .Surely there is a big difference between a private pension plan and a life assurance? Yes , on closer inspection 'Life Plan' is mentioned on some of the other documents but it's not very clear.

As I mentioned , I stopped payments after three years in 1995 as I started a new job and joined their pension scheme -the company matched my contributions so was a no brainer .This is what I replaced with. I also had a PPP running with AD that I started in 1989 .

I'll go ahead with the PPI claim although I don't know for sure if AD put it on there or YBS did.

dunstonh

The initial acceptance letter states 'Personal Pension Plan' with no mention of Life Assurance , subsequent documents are also headed with the same wording in bold at the top ..if it was a life plan I'm wondering why it wasn't shown clearly as such .Surely there is a big difference between a private pension plan and a life assurance? Yes , on closer inspection 'Life Plan' is mentioned on some of the other documents but it's not very clear.

pension term assurance was a bolt on for pensions. It was originally conceived to allow people to use personal pensions to mirror defined benefit occupational pensions. However, it was tweaked over the years and it was frequently used standalone with no pension. However, because it fell under pension rules, the documentation was often multi-purpose and focused on the pension side.

They may have even had it as a later bolt on to your existing PPP with AD.

As I mentioned , I stopped payments after three years in 1995 as I started a new job and joined their pension scheme -the company matched my contributions so was a no brainer .This is what I replaced with.

That is the big problem you have on the AD complaint. You made a decision to change in 1995. You had three years from that point to raise a complaint. You certainly made the right choice to change but the change meant you know it was no longer suitable for the mortgage. So, they don't have to entertain the complaint now if they do not want to.

Nivek

Thanks again for the reply dunstonh . I guess all I can do is put it in writing to Zurich and see what they say ,but I'm adamant this has been mis sold . I replaced it in 1995 with what I thought was a better alternative , I thought I had an investment based product -OK so I never received statements as such but as a layman I didn't think anything of that.
I'd like to add that at the time of taking the mortgage I had a long standing Life Insurance Endowment Policy with Liverpool Victoria -the one the 'insurance man' used to collect money for on the doorstep and you'd get a lump sum after 15 years (Or on death?) . I had one of these for many years until I paid off the mortgage in 2007 . The AD guy didn't ask me about this and I didn't mention it as I didn't think it was relevant. Why would I need a life plan if I had the Liverpool Victoria cover? I wouldn't have agreed to something that was 'dead money' , as I said I was young, healthy,single,no dependants , felt secure in my job and wanted my outgoings kept to a minimum . I didn't know I had to complain within three years and things have only just come to light after I turned 55 ,started to draw on pension funds and unravel my finances .

dunstonh

I guess all I can do is put it in writing to Zurich and see what they say ,but I'm adamant this has been mis sold .

By all means do. Large companies often tend to be a bit scattergun in how they deal with complaints.

However, even if you had the most obvious nailed on complaint going, the 1995 change would allow them to timebar it if they wanted.

I'd like to add that at the time of taking the mortgage I had a long standing Life Insurance Endowment Policy with Liverpool Victoria -the one the 'insurance man' used to collect money for on the doorstep and you'd get a lump sum after 15 years (Or on death?) .

Known as industrial Branch plans. Small value savings endowments from an era when endowments of 15 years would often pay out 4 times more than you paid into them. Although the final ones suffered the same fate as other types.

The AD guy didn't ask me about this and I didn't mention it as I didn't think it was relevant. Why would I need a life plan if I had the Liverpool Victoria cover? I wouldn't have agreed to something that was 'dead money' , as I said I was young, healthy,single,no dependants , felt secure in my job and wanted my outgoings kept to a minimum

Insurance wasnt regulated until Jan 2005. Before then, the you had sales reps. To give you an idea, there were nearly 300,000 insurance agents, advisers, sales reps etc back in the 90s. Today, there are 20,000. The sales side has been progressively removed. Still a few sales types around but what you would expect today is a world away from what you would have done 20 years ago.

i think you were missold based on what you have said. If you are lucky, Zurich wont timebar and will consider your complaint.

Nivek

Thanks dunstonh , I'll let you know what happens .