valuation - Specialist Reports

galaxy123

Hi. This is my first post here so please go easy on me

We're in the process of purchasing a property (currently in rented so no chain for us).
Mortgage has been approved and everything was ticking along nicely until the valuation report arrived.
In addition to lots of cosmetic work, this has advised:
* cavity wall tie specialist required as ties are rusting.
* boiler needs moving out of bedroom as inadequate ventilation.
* windows need replacing (some failed + all provide no fire escape from 1st floor)
* gas central heating, hot water and electrics all require specialist reports.

Asking price was £280k and we agreed £265k (vendor wouldn't agree sub £250k which we had hoped due to SDLT).

Our questions now are:
Who pays for specialist reports? We don't want to throw good money after bad.
Especially as another house has come up across road for £290k and is fully renovated and slightly larger (albeit with a slightly smaller north facing garden).
How much is all this work likely to cost, and how long does it take?
Should we be asking vendor to complete prior to purchase, then stick with agrred price - or try to negotiate a price reduction?

Any and all help most appreciated.

sonastin

Surveyors reports will always say you need specialist reports for heating and electrics - its not something covered by your average surveyor. Doesn't mean there is something to worry about necessarily - just that he hasn't surveyed it.

If you don't feel confident in going ahead based on what you already know, you should get some more advice for peace of mind. Sounds like there is some merit in getting a gas safety check if there is a question over the ventilation of the boiler. The check shouldn't be too expensive so if the vendor won't pay, you should probably pay yourself. If its a real health hazard, you might need to spend a few thousand £ replacing/moving the boiler but it might just be the surveyor being overcautious.

Wall ties - I have no idea so not sure what to advise.

Windows - you can probably decide for yourself how urgently you think they need replacing and budget accordingly.

Electrics - depends how old the building is and what (if any) work has been done to them. Old doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't good enough. If you really don't know enough, worth getting the specialist.

If you think work does need doing urgently and you can't afford it, you can try to renegotiate the price with the vendor. If the vendor thinks he's already lowered the price enough and isn't prepared to entertain negotiations, you'll have to decide just how much you want this house and if you can find the money to do the work as and when it has to be done.

Evilm

We got our sellers to pay for the specialist reports needed. You can certainly try and see what they will say.

A lot of those sound like standard surveyor-covering statements but I myself would take a second look at the windows/boiler and get a specialist in on the electrics, gas etc and the wall ties.

As for cost/time the specialist should be able to give you a guide figure/timescale.

We didn't want to delay completion and since we had a Mortgage in Principle we asked for the maximum allowances for building problems allowed as a discount (£2k) but kept the same price so that the mortgage didn't have to be re-drawn. If you are not already nearing completion then it should be relatively easy to negotiate on the price, or try to anyway.

I certainly would consider looking at the one across the road but if it was built at the same time remember that it may have similar problems with old electrics, boiler location and wall ties. Keep that in mind as you may just end up asking for the same reports on that house too.

Good luck but keep an open mind.

vet8

Surveyors seem to always find some problem which needs a specialist to investigate. The surveyor of our house recommended five other surveys for electrics, wall ties, drains etc. These have all come back O.K., so in theory, the surveys were not needed.

I very much doubt if the seller will be willing to pay for any of these. As the buyer you would pay for the surveys etc. The trouble is that if you are offering fairly low the seller is unlikely to accept an even lower price, unless they are desperate to sell and their house has been on the market for ages. You need to weigh up if you can afford these additional tests. You might pay for them and realise that you then cannot afford the work needed. In which case all the money will have been wasted.

galaxy123

All really useful comments - thanks.

I think we could probably live with most, but the boiler ventilation is a concern, being in one of the childrens bedrooms, and the wall ties is another. Valuer detailed evidence which shows the wall ties are failing, and confirmed this will get progressively worse until eventually structure fails.

I do wonder though, if things are so bad, why he hasn't advised a retention to the mortgage company??

David_Aldred

Hi,
With regard to the cavity wall ties, depending upon the type used within the original construction, the cost of addressing these can run into thousands of pounds especially if the original ties are of a type which requires removal / isolation once new ties are inserted and the cost of scaffolding all elevations to undertake such work is taken into account. Please consider having a look at my previous posts on the forum regarding cavity wall ties and consequentially cavity wall insulation which may be of interest regarding these matters. Kindest regards, David Aldred, Independent damp, timber and wall tie surveyor.

Dry_Rot

Galaxy,

Wall tie corrosion is a common problem, but there are specialists who will survey the property for free. Try The Wall Tie Installers Federation web site. It has a useful 'find a contractor' section and members in most areas. The Property Care Association also have member companies who can help and that site too has a handy 'find a contractor' section where you can just search by area.

It's always better to use a properly accredited specialist. This work is structurally critical so should not be done by untrained technicians. Though free surveys are available, most companies make a small fee. The inspection of an average house is quick though, so don't pay more than £75.00 or so, unless you live in the middle of nowhere.

http://www.wtif.org.uk/
http://www.property-care.org/


Dry Rot.

David_Aldred

Those paying to have cavity wall tie work undertaken upon existing properties may wish to consider having their new wall ties and any works to isolate / remove original cavity wall ties checked by a third party other than the contractor who they are paying to undertake the work in view of the fact that some wall tie work can cost thousands of pounds so it makes sense to ensure that money is justified and the job has been undertaken to a satisfactory standard.

The new ties should be tested to ensure that they are doing their job correctly in holding the leaves of the cavity wall together and this is done by sample random pull out tests of the ties which should achieve the tie manufacturers value / those specificed by the structural engineer. It is no use paying all that money if the ties are not actually holding the wall together properly.

I have come across several problems with replacement cavity wall tie work such as failure to isolate / remove original wall ties where appropriate, new ties inserted at the incorrect angle resulting in internal dampness, cavity wall insulation not made good after wall tie work, debris from wall tie work bridging the cavity of the wall, witnessed a contractor using the test equipment incorrectly to falsify a satisfactory pull test to the project manager / client who did not understand how such equipment should be correctly used and I have even come across a company who installed the new ties at ground level but simply drilled holes, failed to insert the ties at first floor level because they ran out of ties on the van and so just filled the drill holes back in thinking nobody would check!

Accordingly having the contractor self certify their own wall tie work can in some cases result in abuse. I hope such cases are in the minority as I do sympathise for the folk doing wall tie work being high up often in foul weather on the end of a hammer drill all day is far from being the best job in the world but that is no excuse for bad practice.

It should also be appreciated that remedial wall tie work is not the answer in every case as some walls need to be re-built rather than re-tied, for example when the bulging of walls is excessive and / or the substrate may be so poor that ties cannot be adequately fixed sufficiently to restrain the leaves of the wall together.

I have come across walls where new ties were inserted by a wall tie installers federation (which is a trade association) member contractor yet the wall continued to move outwards and had to be rebuilt because it was then deemed to be in danger of collapse by the structural engineer. In another instance a wall tie installers federation contractor (now no longer trading) was found to have installed their replacement ties into the outer leaf of the cavity wall but the cavity was so wide the ties failed to reach the internal leaf of the wall adequately.

The cost for wall tie inspection can vary depending upon the distance travelled, size of the property inspected, level of investigation undertaken and who is actually undertaking such investigation. For example to have the walls inspected by somebody competant who is not a contractor but who is truly independent where they may have to remove sample bricks to expose the most corroded section of wall tie within the mortar beds to each and every elevation / making, good of any insulation etc may be more than say a contractor simply inserting an endoscope / boroscope into the wall cavity and offsetting the cost of such inspection against contracts won from such a site visit. Hope this helps, kindest regards David Aldred, surveyor.