Solar Power Sales Tactics

Cardew

martinpike wrote:

Something for Cardew to respond to? An article in the Guardian today, about the economics of solar power...?

http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,1869308,00.html#article_continue

Cheers, Martin.

Martin,
Could I resist;)

I think that is perhaps the most stupid article from a respected newspaper I have ever seen. It is a typical lazy journalist’s approach of swallowing whole all the hype from the Solar Industry and not doing any research; a ‘ready made’ article.

Let me just take a few quotes:

The payback time would matter if a solar system added no value. But evidence suggests solar power can add nearly 9% to a property's value.

So with the average house price in UK at £170,000 fitting a solar system(using the quote in the article) costing from £3,100 you can raise the value of the average property by over £15,000.
Unbelievable statement – I think I will fit 3 systems.

If you are off the national grid and using oil or liquefied petroleum gas, Department of Trade and Industry (DTI) figures show you could save about £150 a year. For mains gas, which is an efficient way to heat water, the saving is smaller, at about £50 a year.

If you are off the National Grid???? Again an unbelievable statement - I suspect that less than 0.01% of households are not on the national grid.
At least I agree with the DTI that savings of £50 pa for hot water are about right for gas(or Economy 7 electricity!

That means servicing the boiler every two years instead of annually, maybe saving £50 a year

Servicing every 2 years? – what servicing schedule suggests a service based on hours run? and how do you calculate it? It is recommended that a safety check is carried out every year. So they are recommending what?

The bottom line is that the article is recommending that you ‘invest’ upwards of £3,100 for a saving, for most of us, of £50 pa in fuel costs.

martinpike

Hehe, I'm glad you took the challenge in the spirit it was intended Cardew.

It's tough for a clueless person (me) to discern between people who sound knowledgeable.

The only potential issue I have with your approach is that you don't seem to allow for the fact that the installation of solar panels will add value to the house. I just look at it like I would a conservatory or a new kitchen.

Cheers, Martin.

Cardew

martinpike wrote:

It's tough for a clueless person (me) to discern between people who sound knowledgeable.

The only potential issue I have with your approach is that you don't seem to allow for the fact that the installation of solar panels will add value to the house. I just look at it like I would a conservatory or a new kitchen.

Cheers, Martin.

Martin,
I understand the point you are making about who is talking rubbish and who is not. The problem is there are so many people with vested interests trying to peddle their wares. I have taken the opposite position and certainly have no vested interest; and cannot think of any reason why people would argue against these system except on grounds of economics.

The 'bottom line' is if any of these systems were in any way economically viable then Government sponsored organisations would be falling over themselves to recomend them. Read the Energy Saving Trust literature(a Government backed organisation much quoted in the literature of the Alternative Energy Industry) and you will find no claim of any economic viability. Would not your namesake Martin running this site make a recommendation if he considered it a 'Money Saver?'

It is a fair point to consider if a solar system adds to the value of your property. I would guess very little; but 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder'. The potential saving of £50-75 pa is not a great and with them come the costs of running pumps, servicing and potential repairs etc. I understand that BG Homecare will not cover them under their schemes.

robellett

Something to consider when evaluating solar electricity generation is that many of us, especially lower-income folk such as pensioners, scrimp on their electricity usage. Frightened by potentially running up huge bills without Solar, some people may prefer to generate some of their own, via a fixed cost Solar system, paid for up-front. This way they can feel free to increase their power consumption upto levels that better meet their needs.

Cardew

robellett wrote:

Something to consider when evaluating solar electricity generation is that many of us, especially lower-income folk such as pensioners, scrimp on their electricity usage. Frightened by potentially running up huge bills without Solar, some people may prefer to generate some of their own, via a fixed cost Solar system, paid for up-front. This way they can feel free to increase their power consumption upto levels that better meet their needs.

Instead of paying for solar up front, why not put the money in a building society?
The interest you get from that money will be more than your saving from the system you have fitted.

Bear in mind that the average saving for solar hot water is only £50-75 a year.

The cost of installing solar electricity panels is huge - around £10,000 for a decent system. You get a lot of interest on that. Far more than you will save in electricity.

Ken68

robellett wrote:

Something to consider when evaluating solar electricity generation is that many of us, especially lower-income folk such as pensioners, scrimp on their electricity usage. Frightened by potentially running up huge bills without Solar, some people may prefer to generate some of their own, via a fixed cost Solar system, paid for up-front. This way they can feel free to increase their power consumption upto levels that better meet their needs.

Agree Rob., my low tech solar cookers have returned 10litres hot water per day all summer, and even on overcast days, lukewarm water..no less a performance than roof mounted solar panels......capital cost a fiver. Manual of course.

Cardew

Ken68 wrote:

Agree Rob., my low tech solar cookers have returned 10litres hot water per day all summer, and even on overcast days, lukewarm water..no less a performance than roof mounted solar panels......capital cost a fiver. Manual of course.

Robellet stated solar electricity generation - not solar hot water. I have not heard of a firm fitting a full system(2 kW) for lees than £10,000. Even the Energy Saving Trust say it should be around that cost.

Gorgeous_George

What seem sto get missed is the environmental damage done by:
1) making these low-efficient, totally-pointless solar panel
2) transporting them to warehouses and on to the mug's houses
3) salesmen driving to appointments
4) fitters driving to fit the panels

If the electric panels were viable, farmers would have field after field covered in them.

I think the most likely cost-effective method ould be thermal subterranean.

Perhaps we should all respond to the advertising, spend a few hours litening intently only to say NO THANK YOU at the end.



GG

yakky58

Always interesting to read up on solar debates. I can speak with some knowledge as I have solar water and PV panels installed.

Gas usage for the last quarter as 30% compared to a year ago. So I see that as a saving of 70%. Accepted its over the summer months and we have had good weather this summer. As for more savings I deliberately bought and hot and cold fill washing machine so that going solar meant I didn't waste Kwh heating the washing machine. As for servicing anyone who uses BG Homacare should look for a local company, mine in Hampshire was more that happy to service the solar for an additional £5. That makes the bill still a lot cheaper that BG Homecare and the others that run a service.

Now lets take the PV panels. I paid less than 10K for a 2.5Khw system and the grant paid back a substaintial amount, I don't have details to plan. I checked my export meter today and since the install 5.5 months ago I have drawn down 1107 kwh and put back 807 so in fact used 300, excluding that consumed directly. I am well happy, the box supplied says I have generated 1402 kwh to date. That's a reasonable amount.

Cardew points out it costs to run the pump for Solar water, true, mine is free from the PV. I am more than able to replace the pump just the same as the central heating pump, switch off the water supply either side undo two nuts and exchange, cost for the pump is around £50 and my time say one hour. Not exactly a huge cost.

I am not entering into the payback debate, I accept those figures. I am just seeing my bills drop, the last electricity bill was £32 for the quarter. I am happy to pay that!

As for adding value to the house and an eye sore. The local estate agent said my house was worth about 10K more now. So not the whole outlay back but over 60%. An eye sore, most people ask what it is and then get into a discussion and want to investigate more. None have said it looks ugly.

Yes there are lots of cowboys...I turned Simply Solar away after 2 hours. Just do your home work, he could not answer the questions I had. His sales pitch became sign tonight and I'll knock some much off. Once I hear that you know they are cowboys.