Classic timepieces as an investment

moonrakerz

Don't forget that once you have bought it, you have to keep its "service history" up to date - THAT will not be cheap !

artha

Interesting thread. It's a refreshing first (as far as I can see) on the broader investing theme. Most people on this thread I guess only invest in the traditional themes i'e cash,bonds,equities & property. Perhaps it's time for the sector of physical investments(other than property) to get it's own place. Don't want to be contentious but perhaps physical gold would belong in that category.

For what it's worth I hold quality musical instruments (guitars/mandolins/banjos) as an investment although they never started out in that way as they were the best I could afford at the time and were bought to be played. Since the moves of production from the US to China and Japan many crafstman(but factory) made instruments have become
sought after. As an example I bought a 1937 Gibson Mandolin in Florida in the mid 70's for less than $100. Mandolins of the same type are now fetching in excess of £1000. Not a fantastic return if I choose to sell but at least I've had many years of pleasure from it. At some stage later in life I will no longer be able to play it but could get back a decent returns after a lifetime of use that has earned me money through playing at the same time?

lisyloo

I'm sure there are but I gather 99% of the cheap fakes you can spot immediately.

It's down to individual choice, people can do as they choose.
I would say the risks are much higher than 1% and there are more high quality fakes than that. But I wouldn't risk a 1% chance of losing say £5K to save a few hundred.
ebay is not THAT cheap these days now it's become mainstream.
Personally I only find it useful for things that cannot be bought elsewhere (like out of print books or items not made anymore), otherwise other channels are just as cheap or cheaper.

Given that you can get genuine good deals by
1) haggling at a proper jeweller
2) buying from an airport
3) buying abroad when exchange rate is good
4) buying in tax free places e.g. Alaska
5) buying just before a price rise

Up to everyone to make their own choice, of course.

All I'm pointing out is that far greater effort will go into manufacturing a high quality fake when the payoff is £5K than say for a pair of jeans or a DVD.
Even the certificates and documentation can be faked.

But if people want to do it then that's up to them.

Jonbvn

lisyloo wrote: »

1) haggling at a proper jeweller
2) buying from an airport
3) buying abroad when exchange rate is good
4) buying in tax free places e.g. Alaska
5) buying just before a price rise

OP wants to buy 2nd hand???

bendix

Rolex are so cliched. I got a big bonus; I'm gonna get me a Rolex. It's the timepiece of choice for the newly rich Chinese, for example, with more money than taste.

I'm sure they're a decent investment, but there is more money to be made in more classic watches such as Patek Philippe, IWC, Adeneur etc. Much more desirable than the ubiquitous Rolex.

lisyloo

OP wants to buy 2nd hand???

Then they need to be very careful IMO.
It's a minefield.
I believe there are some official channels to buy 2nd hand Rolex.

I have to say my experience is limited to new ones where we've got a cracking deal using the techniques I've listed.

uptomyeyeballs

Thanks to everyone for their replies. I've liked the particular watch I refer to for ages, but am only now in the fortunate position to be able to buy one, although I can't afford a brand new one (and no, it wasn't a 'big bonus'). I do however want to know that my purchase won't devalue greatly in the next few years and if it's value increases over time then it can be willed to someone deserving later. That's my motivation. I could buy Patek Philippe, IWC, Adeneur etc. as bendix suggests, but what's the point if I don't particularly like the watch designs as much? There are some Rolex watches that I think are hideous too, but the Oysters, GMTs, Yachtmasters etc. don't seem to be fashionably cyclic, they're always there on the stylish list, no matter what is en vogue.

lisyloo

Yes I think "more money that taste" is a rude to be honest.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and if you're buying it a watch because you like it rather than a status symbol, then you shoudl get what you like IMO.

If you are buying it to wear primarily then I think it will hold it's value well.

The only thing I'd caution is about travel insurance (or even outside the home in the UK).
Normal travel insurance or even home personal possessions insurance have woefully small limits if you have decent jewelry.

It's normally a few thousand, which would barely cover decent wedding and engagement rings, let alone anything else.

So take a look at this because you should defniitely have it insured.
and of course keep receipts, not just for resale, but also for insurance purposes.

If you generally have a "high value" household then go for a superior insurer like Hiscox or Chubb.
Not the cheapest, but definitely superior cover and you can specify your own limits.

debbie42

artha wrote: »

Most people on this thread I guess only invest in the traditional themes i'e cash,bonds,equities & property. Perhaps it's time for the sector of physical investments(other than property) to get it's own place.

I'd guess that there are lots of us on this forum "investing" in such things. Buying things that you appreciate and can enjoy (if you can afford it) can make things fun. I collect some specialist items (for example, vintage Omega watches ), but wouldn't ordinarily discuss them on this forum, as they are too specialised. It give me pleasure to look at them, and, in the case of watches, they are also useful. If they appreciate in value, then that's a bonus.

oldagetraveller

Instead of risking spending a lot of money on an overpriced Rolex, where there's no guarantee it will appreciate, why not save yourself a fortune and buy something like an Ollech & Wajs M4? http://www.rltwatches.co.uk/acatalog/Divers.html . The money saved can be used for something more boringly safe!
It'll last for years and you'll not be too distressed if worn all the time and it gets "dinged", damaged or more importantly stolen! Becoming scarce now but obviously will not increase in value. Superb, good looking (if to taste) and pretty bombproof. Cheap servicing too, unlike Rolex.