Advise cabot - argos cca unenforceability

rosieday

Hi everyone,

Just wonder if someone could help me with what to do next.

Basically i have had a debt with argos ie store card for a few years now and i have been paying a pound a mth. Argos then sold the debt to Cabot. To which i continued making the payments. After looking around this site and the internet i took the courage and requested a cca from cabot. They sent me a copy of my agreement signed by myself. It was a argos store card application form with the interest missing on it and they also sent me an upto date terms and conditions leaflet.
I wrote a letter to cabot putting the account in dispute, Just to make sure i then wrote to argos requesting a sar along with required 10 pounds.
I received the sar and they had asked permission from cabot and they had sent the money to cabot to put it against the debt, which cabot did. Argos also said in a memo to cabot that any further correspondance from me will go straight to cabot.

The Cca in the sar was the same as cabot sent and a printed out copy of the terms and conditions that has got a date of when entered onto their system as being a good few years after i had done my agreement.

So i think that my agreement could still be unenforceable. Cabot are now sending my account to pre litigation as they have said that me account is totally enforceable.

So i was wondering if anyone could advise my best course of action.
The amount owing is 700,

If you need to see copies of the agreement i will try and get them onto the computer. May need help from OH, not very competant.

Anyways

Thank you

Rosieday

Happytogetdebtfree

that doesnt make sense ? you say you spent the cash and have been paying back the agreemebts are signed and dated and both are matching ? i dont know much about the unenforcability hopefully someone can clarify for us.. good luck

mr.ton

Typical behaviour from Cabot.
Make a complaint to the OFT & trading standards.
Also obtain a copy of Cabots official complaints proceedure.
The £10 was not sent to be taken off the debt so they were bang out of order doing that.

NorthernLas

Rosieday - Can you edit the subject of your post so people who know about CCA will notice it - you might get a better response.

E.g Cabot insist Argos CCA is enforceable - what now - advice please?

Was the card taken out before 2007?

ilovebanksMCMLXXXI

Hi

Why is the account in dispute? If you had an Argos Card, spent the money and then agreed to pay back £1 per month I don't see which part you are disputing? I may have misunderstood you so my apologies if that's the case.

Unless you enter into something like an IVA, you are only basically in a 'gentleman's agreement' with your creditor and when push comes to shove, business is business and when Cabot came along and offered Argos their money back they snapped their arm off - sadly that's how the world of bad debt operates.

If you have a genuine dispute/query with the account then you've done the correct thing is writing to Cabot but ultimately, if they feel they answered you in full and there is not a genuine query/dispute to answer they will take it further.

My advice would be to increase the £1 per month token payment if at all possible because what Cabot are now trying to do is make money on their investment (their investment being the money they paid Argos for your bad debt).

Cabot are a business so have a deal with them if you can.

Good luck, I'm sure it'll work out.

All the best

rosieday

Hello everyone

Thank you for the replys.

The card was taken out in 2001, due to several health issues i was unable to continue with the payments. i was paying £1 per month as i have other debt as well, and then last year started asking for cca to check for validity and for my records.
I have already entered into negotiation with some of my creditors for F&F. due to unenforceable agreements in one way or another.

This one has me worried as they have now entered into pre litigation,

An account in dispute letter was sent in November 2009, and as soon as argos notified them and payed them the £10 they have decided to go in to pre litigation.

They should not have asked permission from cabot about sending me the sar and they should not have paid them the £10 towards the debt, this bit i know.

Their is no intrest rate on this application which i know should be and their is no signature box for argos to sign in. it is a scribble over the about your account words, which to be honest could be anything.

The terms and conditions they sent me were a copy of the current terms and not the terms at the time.

In the Sar it is the same copy and a print out of some terms and conditions that have argos small print doc 9/5.06 on them which is 5 years after my application was made.

So this is my dilemma, by the way i have re done the title in this post but i can't edit my first post, unless their is something i am doing wrong.

In response to i signed and agreed to the card that it's only i right i should pay.

I was in a bad place at the time of agreeing and i did keep making the payments until health issues got in the way, i am not in a good financial position to pay more a month. This debt around me has been going on for 7 years, i want an end to it all, i am fed up with the constant letters threatening this that and the other. So by looking around this site and others like it, it has made me strong enough to try and do something about it.

So thank you to your wonderful site and the wonderful work you are all doing to help anybody that needs it.

Rosieday:j

ilovebanksMCMLXXXI

rosieday wrote: »

Hello everyone

Thank you for the replys.

The card was taken out in 2001, due to several health issues i was unable to continue with the payments. i was paying £1 per month as i have other debt as well, and then last year started asking for cca to check for validity and for my records.
I have already entered into negotiation with some of my creditors for F&F. due to unenforceable agreements in one way or another.

This one has me worried as they have now entered into pre litigation,

An account in dispute letter was sent in November 2009, and as soon as argos notified them and payed them the £10 they have decided to go in to pre litigation.

They should not have asked permission from cabot about sending me the sar and they should not have paid them the £10 towards the debt, this bit i know.

Their is no intrest rate on this application which i know should be and their is no signature box for argos to sign in. it is a scribble over the about your account words, which to be honest could be anything.

The terms and conditions they sent me were a copy of the current terms and not the terms at the time.

In the Sar it is the same copy and a print out of some terms and conditions that have argos small print doc 9/5.06 on them which is 5 years after my application was made.

So this is my dilemma, by the way i have re done the title in this post but i can't edit my first post, unless their is something i am doing wrong.

In response to i signed and agreed to the card that it's only i right i should pay.

I was in a bad place at the time of agreeing and i did keep making the payments until health issues got in the way, i am not in a good financial position to pay more a month. This debt around me has been going on for 7 years, i want an end to it all, i am fed up with the constant letters threatening this that and the other. So by looking around this site and others like it, it has made me strong enough to try and do something about it.

So thank you to your wonderful site and the wonderful work you are all doing to help anybody that needs it.

Rosieday:j

Hello again

You really do need to seek so professional advice on this either contacting a Debt Organisation such as PayPlan or even a solicitor.

I would strongly advise you to do that because although requesting terms and conditions, using your position with the Credit Consumer Act etc etc is all well and good it sounds like something has been missed if it genuinelly is going to litigation.

I'm not an expert but I have huge debts that I've only recently got in order and I have got a wealth of knowledge with this sort of this (I'm VERY sad to say!).

One thing I cannot stress enough to you is the fact that you have to remember that you and Argos entered an agreement and you did not keep to your part of that agreement so whilst there are things you can do, ultimately you cannot start pointing the finger too much at Argos if after 5 years they've decided enough is enough.

'If' Argos have sold the debt to Cabot you are dealing with a different kettle of fish.

If Argos suddenly decided after 5 long years they were going to do something about your account you would probably find that a judge would tell them to behave themselves and that they should've sorted it sooner.

Cabot but bad debt and then chase it as their own, they are succesful at that are good at making people act - as they are doing with you.

Their aim is simple - They will purchase £50,000 of bad debt (for example) and aim to chase people and recoup more than £50,000. That is their business.

You have to remember that whatever you owe Argos, Cabot will not have paid that. Argos will have sold the debt for less just to cross it off their debt list. With that in mind, it won't take a huge amount of money from you for Cabot to make a profit on your debt.

As I say, you must seek professional advice. This forum is absolutely superb but litigation needs to be acted upon quickly.

If you would like a suggestion on who to call - PayPlan 0800 280 2816.

Good luck

never-in-doubt

ilovebanksMCMLXXXI wrote: »

Hello again

You really do need to seek so professional advice on this either contacting a Debt Organisation such as PayPlan or even a solicitor.

If you would like a suggestion on who to call - PayPlan 0800 280 2816.

Good luck

There is absolutely no need to seek professional advice here - do you work for PayPlan? If not then please stop spamming the thread with their details.... they are one of many DMP's and you should not push them on here - thanks for that!

---

OP, visit my thread here - Unenforceability & Template Letters IV - for all the advice you need on the legalities of Unenforceability - i'll sort this for you, no probs. If what you say is true then yes it is 100% unenforceable (the main element of s.78 is that the Prescribed Terms are intact and lack of interest within the 4 corners immediately puts the account at unenforceable status) and you should cease repayments entirely, also the fact they have used SAR funds to repay toward a debt is strictly forbidden and ergo a complaint to the ICO could be in order, but hold fire on that thought as right now there is no need being you'll be telling Argos to go swivel soon enough!

So as things stand, you need to send this back to whoever owns the debt (i.e. the DCA) Threat-o-Gram - Letter before Action - and for the moment do not worry too much about the other points, these can be used later if and when they play silly beggars with you.

Good Luck

never-in-doubt

Just noticed they have scared you with pre litigation - in what way exactly? Please be specific - if they are pushing for a CCJ then we'll get it set-aside, so don't worry - the fact they are in default of your s.78 request actually gives you the upper hand so let them threaten you all you want - its not a real concern right now.

Just send the letter as advised above and see what they come back with!

Best of luck.

ilovebanksMCMLXXXI

never-in-doubt wrote: »

There is absolutely no need to seek professional advice here - do you work for PayPlan? If not then please stop spamming the thread with their details.... they are one of many DMP's and you should not push them on here - thanks for that!

---

OP, visit my thread here - Unenforceability & Template Letters IV - for all the advice you need on the legalities of Unenforceability - i'll sort this for you, no probs. If what you say is true then yes it is 100% unenforceable (the main element of s.78 is that the Prescribed Terms are intact and lack of interest within the 4 corners immediately puts the account at unenforceable status) and you should cease repayments entirely, also the fact they have used SAR funds to repay toward a debt is strictly forbidden and ergo a complaint to the ICO could be in order, but hold fire on that thought as right now there is no need being you'll be telling Argos to go swivel soon enough!

So as things stand, you need to send this back to whoever owns the debt (i.e. the DCA) Threat-o-Gram - Letter before Action - and for the moment do not worry too much about the other points, these can be used later if and when they play silly beggars with you.

Good Luck

Excuse me!? - this comment is out of order:

There is absolutely no need to seek professional advice here - do you work for PayPlan? If not then please stop spamming the thread with their details.... they are one of many DMP's and you should not push them on here - thanks for that!

People on here are seeking advice and PayPlan have helped me no end so I'm offering advice. If you don't like it then that's fair enough but my comments are valid because I've lived through it and dealt with similar and identical issues.

Have you?

Setting aside things in court is all well and good but one day these problems will have to be dealt with otherwise you'll forever be 'setting things aside'.

As you are probably aware and should make others aware - if you set something aside it doesn't go away. It's simply moving the file from the urgent pile to the pending one and they'll be back.

If your suggestion goes t*ts up because you're advising somebody NOT to seek legal or professional advice, can this person come back to you if you were wrong and sue? I wouldn't have thought so.

Who gives one if I mention PayPlan? They are a decent organisation and you may want to remember that some people on here are in real need of assistance and need somewhere to contact if things don't go to plan. Whilst this forum is fantastic there is no back up when things go wrong with the advice given.

Numpty_Monkey

Sorry OP for taking this off topic a bit

ILoveBanks, to save any further misunderstandings instead of naming a certain company, I know quite a few people on here that have used and been happy with payplan
All you have to do is copy the link on the step-bystep guide Non-profit Debt Counsellors' List

Helps stop any bad feelings:beer::D