Really worried about tax credit disability element after speaking to Tax credit team

[Deleted User]

But it is not the helpline staff who has said the OP is not entitled to the disability element. It is the compliance team, who surly would know the rules, when the OP first claimed and stopped claiming IB.
Perhaps the compliance team mean you are not entiled to it for this year, but you would have been for last year as that was when you came off IB.

loulou123

_shel wrote: »

But it is not the helpline staff who has said the OP is not entitled to the disability element. It is the compliance team, who surly would know the rules, when the OP first claimed and stopped claiming IB.
Perhaps the compliance team mean you are not entiled to it for this year, but you would have been for last year as that was when you came off IB.

But the compliance team don't seem to know either, they have said they need to look into it as they are not sure! You would imagine that this would be a relatively common sceniro and that they would know the answer.

LOULOU123 could this be old info ?? can you post me the link to where you found the info......thank you

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/tctmanual/tctm02510.htm

Heres the link, its off the HMRC website and from one of their training manuals - the part ive quoted in my post above is quite near the bottom of the page. If it is the old info then you would think that they would refresh the info on their own website really.

Hammyman

loulou123 wrote: »

On saturday i received a letter from the tax credit compliance team (as i believe have lots of others from reading this forum.)

I called them this morning and they told me that i may no longer qualify for the disability element. Im now really worried as this is the only way i qualify for TC at all (as only work 16 hours a week-due to illness) and im terrifed that if i dont qualify i will have to pay them back all the payments from this year.

They went through the conditions with me-

Condition 1 - that you work 16 hours a week or more which i do.

Condition 2 - You have a disability that puts you at a disadvantage of getting a job - which i do, i am on daily meds, see my doctor regulary and also a specialist. This i can easily proof if necessary.

Condition 3 - You have recently received/are receiving a disability related benefit.

This is the one they are saying that i may no longer qualify for. As i came off incapacity benefit in April last year when i started work.

BUT the information they sent me states that i meet this condition if- you were entitled to the disability element of WTC in the last eight weeks (which as far as i can see i was) and this entitlement existed because you previously satisfied description 2 below, which is receiving incapacity benefit.

But they are saying that i received the incapacity benefit too long ago now to qualify. Im so confused and really worried about this.

Sorry for the really long post, but can anyone help me figure this out?

Condition 2 you misunderstand a bit. The fact you are on meds and seeing a specialist is irrelevent. I qualify because I can only stand for certain periods and lifting is out of the question. That's the kind of restriction they're on about - something that limits the job and the hours you can work.

Condition 3: IB is not really a disability related benefit but a sickness one.

Indie_Kid

Hammyman wrote: »

Condition 3: IB is not really a disability related benefit but a sickness one.

IB is included on the list of benefits. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/tc956.pdf

[Deleted User]

Hammyman wrote: »

Condition 2 you misunderstand a bit. The fact you are on meds and seeing a specialist is irrelevent. I qualify because I can only stand for certain periods and lifting is out of the question. That's the kind of restriction they're on about - something that limits the job and the hours you can work.

Condition 3: IB is not really a disability related benefit but a sickness one.

Exactly lots of people take meds for various things every day, that would not always put them at a disadvantage. They mean things that would qualify you under the DDA.

sh1305 wrote: »

IB is included on the list of benefits. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/tc956.pdf

But only if recently received. One can not claim IB for sickness in say 2004 and still be claiming the disability element in 2010 if there is no other recent relevant disability related benefit ie DLA.

loulou123

Ok maybe i didnt explain myself clearly on condition 2 - these are the bits of the condition that i was judged as "passing" (for want of a better word) taken from their website:

16. He has a mental illness for which he receives regular treatment under the supervision of a medically qualified person.

20. He cannot normally sustain an 8 hour working day or a 5 day working week due to a medical condition, or intermittent or continuous severe pain.

(taken from here http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/tctmanual/tctm02530.htm )

but the compliance team is not disputing this condition anyways as they have spoken to my doctor/specialist already and he has confirmed that these are indeed true and likely to last for the forseeable future. I was just trying to simplyfy this condition on my intial post so sorry if i confused anyone,as didnt mean to suggest that anyone taking daily medication would qualify!

As for the IB issue, i was on incapacity benefit up until 28th April 09 (for the same condition) the problem i have is still the same as it was in April 09 (maybe even slightly worse due to personal reasons im not going to go into.) i was fast tracked onto WTC when i started work after a relatively long period on IB.

kurjam

i am curious to what happens, i got the disability element and i got mine took off me as i am in the same situation at loulou123....
i have disputed my overpayment, i work 16 hours, and i have got a disadvantage of keeping a job etc... due to having only 2 disks in the back on my right hand side, i takes loads of meds etc.....

should i quote the info loulou123 as posted here..... or am i to late my incap ended dec 08, as it automatically changed to maternity allowance then in sept 09 i started work,.....

Icequeen99

_shel wrote: »

E

But only if recently received. One can not claim IB for sickness in say 2004 and still be claiming the disability element in 2010 if there is no other recent relevant disability related benefit ie DLA.

Shel, That is not correct. You can claim IB in 2004, moved into work and claim WTC (including the disability element) through to 2010 without claiming DLA. As long as you pass the disadvantage at work test and the qualifying benefit test (see below where i explain why the OP passes this), there is no requirement that there be a RECENT relevant disability related benefit.

The disadvantage at work test criteria is set out in TC956 leaflet, but the OP says that isn't at issue here.

The 'qualifying benefit' test as it is called is set out in the Tax Credit (Entitlement and Maximum Rate) Regulations 2002. They are available here on the HMRC site, updated to 6th April 2010

I can't post the link but if you search 'HMRC tax credit consolidated regulations' on google, click the first link. You should see a list of regulations. It is the entitlement and maximum rate ones you need.
That is where you will find Regulation 9 referred to in the guidance you posted previously.

These regulations are the law, and will be used if this case goes to Tribunal.

If you look at Regulation 9, it shows you what is covered by the guidance Loulou123 posted above.

Following it through, Regulation 9(1)(c) says that you are entitled to have the disability element included if you meet any of the Cases A-G.

DLA (Disability Living Allowance) is Case C. IB in the last 182 days (6 months) is Case A.

Case A is what Loulou would have qualified through originally (and what a person getting IB in 2004 in your example would qualify through)

However, ongoing entitlement is under Case G which simply requires that the person was entitled to the disability element of WTC in the last 56 days 'by virtue of entitlement of his having satisfied the requirements of case A, B, E or F at some earlier time'

So Loulou123 continues to qualify under Case G. As would the person in your example in 2010, even if they got IB in 2004. As long as they have a disability which puts them at a disadvantage & work 16hrs or more, they meet the 3rd requirement by virtue of Case G.

Compliance have it wrong. As I said previously, the helpline and compliance have got this issue wrong previously, and the OP should make sure that she appeals if they do insist that her disabilty elememnt should be removed.

Quote the guidance to them and the regulations.

Good luck

IQ

bigbill

bigbill wrote: »

If this government wanted to save money this department should be shut.

They have some numpties working there.

They can only stop your on-going WTC with the disability part if you failed the disadvantage part.

I still agree

kurjam

my plot thickens as well, i last claimed incapacity benefit dec 2008, i started working 16hours a week and i am a disadvantage of a job because i cannot stand for long periods, can not lift......etc..... as my above posts says they stopped my disability element and said i had to pay all last years overpayment, which i disputed....
then today get a payment i was not expecting and i have now been told i am entitled to the disability element an no overpayment is due anymore... i am now worried incase they have got this wrong..

would i still qualify the same as loulou123 should do ??

So Loulou123 continues to qualify under Case G. As would the person in your example in 2010, even if they got IB in 2004. As long as they have a disability which puts them at a disadvantage & work 16hrs or more, they meet the 3rd requirement by virtue of Case G.