Bank Charge for system error

Olipro

samjef11 wrote: »

You mean like a buffer limit some basic bank account have like a £10 buffer limit like a small overdraft in other words.

most accounts have this, it's essentially your "unarranged overdraft" however, if you are considered a credit risk then this will not be permitted.

Mark_In_Hampshire

Olipro wrote: »

Wrong, neither are culpable.

each time you insert your card into the terminal you are implicitly giving permission for the merchant to obtain authorisation for the amount due.

She removed the card prematurely thereby preventing the transaction from completing, thus the transaction was deemed cancelled, however, since the card was removed, the authorisation can't be voided because the account information in inaccessible (card was removed) and unfortunately, the terminals don't have the sort of database access that allows them to check if authorisation was already obtained on a card.

Sadly, had she had an overdraft available or had Nationwide not deemed her a credit risk and simply allowed the DD to go through, she wouldn't have been charged anything at all since authorised amounts don't classify as overdrawn funds.

Doh - I'd missed that bit. Not sure how since it's right at the start of the post. I agree - nobody is cuplable. Though since I'm a developer and in IT the phrase "two phase commit" applies here (transaction completes at both ends or neither) I'm a bit surprised that this can actually happen.

natweststaffmember

Olipro wrote: »

Tell Nationwide that you will take the case to the FOS, considering that'll cost them £300 they'll quite possibly back down at that point.

However, let this be a lesson that using bank cards for payments is really a crap idea if you're someone who is living close to the edge. the whole system of amount authorisation was designed for credit cards and as you've discovered, can be very detrimental.

my advice? get a credit card.

It has gone up to £500.00 btw. However it would cost the bank more for someone to look into a case that was with the FOS. Just for clarification purposes.
If it had been a business account that fee would be double

Olipro

Mark_In_Hampshire wrote: »

Doh - I'd missed that bit. Not sure how since it's right at the start of the post. I agree - nobody is cuplable. Though since I'm a developer and in IT the phrase "two phase commit" applies here (transaction completes at both ends or neither) I'm a bit surprised that this can actually happen.

It's due to the way EMV works, the terminal requests an ARQC from the card for the transaction which gets sent to the issuer for verification, the issuer sends a response to the card and the card provides an audit log to the terminal, if the issuing bank can't be contacted then the terminal can ask the card to authorise offline or it can request an AAC from the card and cancel the transaction thus keeping the card's transaction counter in sync.

if you whip the card from the terminal however, then most times you'll either be preventing the terminal from sending the issuer response to the card or you'll be preventing it from providing the audit log to the terminal and in either case, it will be utterly clueless as to the result of the authorisation attempt.

the terminal *only* obtains authorisation, those authorisations are processed by separate backend software that actually submits them to the relevant card network for funds transfer (this is also why authorisations from certain merchants fall off a card and then the money finally debited several days later because the merchant may only submit authorisations weekly or monthly which is beyond the issuing bank's authorisation blocking period)

jemmahowells

Got a bit too technical now for me I'm afraid.

Can I just say that I don't understand how Nationwide can think I'm a risky customer as they've just approved my mortgage application to buy a 4 bed house so not sure how that works.

I do also have 2 accounts one for bills and one for day to day use, it just so happened that this was a one off as I'd forgotten my day to day bank card. Also ironic that the direct debit was for my last loan payment.

It sounds like it was my stupid fault for removing the card too early and I should just swallow the charge and pay more notice at the checkout in future!!!

Thanks for all your help, I wasn't sure whether this was one of those 'happens to everyone' things but sounds like its just a 'happens to me' case!! Thanks again!

Olipro

no, I wouldn't give up, just phone nationwide and explain what happened and say that you consider the £30 unreasonable... if the person on the other end is unhelpful then tell them you'll take it to the Financial Ombudsman if they won't drop it.

samjef11_2

Plus it will to be much hassle for £30 so they mght refund you with a £30 goodwill payment.

jemmahowells

Ok I will try that tomorrow and let you know how I get on. Thank you all!

kaitlinsmummy

Asda are terrible for doing this.
1st time it happened to me I went on a friday and spent £130 they earmarked it twice. I noticed it on the saturday as it left me with no credit just my O/D. Halifax were good and cancelled the other for me but did warn if Asda try and reclaim the 2nd one halifax will pay them.
3 weeks later same happened again went and did the shopping they earmarked it twice again balance was £500 avail balance was £290 something rang Halifax again and they cancelled the other one.
Both of the transactions were fine I didnt pull the card out early or it wasnt declined 1st time etc. Halifax did say it is a fault with asda not the bank

So now when shopping in Asda I draw cash out instead of using my debit card.
Surely the bank can see its not your fault Asda did this, so maybe as a goodwill gesture they should waiver it for you.
Good luck

jemmahowells

I just thought I'd let you know that after 3 months of absolute persistance, Nationwide have credited my account with the charge that they applied! Althought must admit I probably spent that on calls but I keep telling myself "IT WAS THE PRINCIPLE!!!". Thanks for all your help!