School declined holidays and branded the kids truants

Murphy_The_Cat

littlemissbossy wrote: »

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has been said.

I personally have no kids and always choose to take my holidays during term time as I like the fact that everywhere is less busy and no kids making a racket. If children could be taken out of school during term time I would never know when was "safe".

Been there
Done that
Bought the TShirt

I'm with you all the way on that one Sister.

Fortunately, the world is a big place and I always managed to find somewhere realtively squauking child free, as I'm sure that you do:beer:

blue_monkey_2

littlemissbossy wrote: »

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has been said.

I personally have no kids and always choose to take my holidays during term time as I like the fact that everywhere is less busy and no kids making a racket. If children could be taken out of school during term time I would never know when was "safe".

But that would not stop someone taking under 5's on holiday would it as they do not have to go to school. You could be stuck next to someone with 4 kids under 5 during term time. What would you prefer, kids playing or babies crying?

If you don't want kids around you then you could quite easily go to an 'adults only' resort or a resort that only caters for couples then you would not have that 'risk' of having your holiday 'ruined' by someone else's children.

It's like people who go to family restaurants and them complain that there are too many kids.

mogadon

Murphy_The_Cat wrote: »

How about if your Contract of Emplyement allowed you up to 10 days additional unpaid leave per year, as long as it fit into the Emploters criteria nad was done with a suitable notice period ?

If my contract of employment said I could request an additional 10 days, but the allocation of it was entirely at the discretion of my employer. Then if I asked and they said no, I would abide by that. I wouldn't insist it was my right to have those days as and when I pleased.

The employer would also have the right to withdraw that perk if they saw fit, and again, I'd have no cause for complaint, because it was never an entitlement in the first place.

blue_monkey wrote: »

Yeah, but employees get 28 days a year of whatever date they choose to be able to go on holiday and can choose the cheapest times. That works out to about 6-8 weeks off if you include Xmas in that as well. Of any date you choose.

Teacher's don't. In fact many employees don't. There are almost 12 weeks of the year when I am not allowed to take my leave, and during the remaining 40, I still have to ask permission, and it isn't always granted.

poet123 wrote: »

That is not really a comparable situation though is it? The employer may be refusing for exactly the operational reasons you highlight, but those reasons are not applicable to children in school.

Schools have operational concerns as well, and employers (the vast majority anyway) would cope if an employee suddenly took 2 weeks unexpected authorised leave (i.e. sickness). So it's not like most of them genuinely couldn't manage. But we still aren't allowed to do it, and, more importantly, no-one seems to think they should have the right to do it.

poet123 wrote: »

All classes include children of differing ability and speed, so all the children will be at a different stage at any one time, no catching up will be required, their absence causes no one else to be inconvenienced, nor are they paid to do a job.

I'm not a teacher, but I work in Education, and sometimes in schools. It both settings it does cause problems when children are off for a period, whether through illness, holiday, or whatever, because they end up out of synch. Catching up is required, and whilst it's not the end of the world, it is noticeable. When it happens a lot, either with individual children, or with many children at different times, the effects are compounded.

Yes children work at different stages, but a topic may have completely finished by the time they return. Or they could have gone part way through a piece of group work, leaving the rest of their group in the lurch. Nothing insumountable, but problems nonetheless.

poet123 wrote: »

nor are they paid to do a job.

No, but the service they are using is being paid for, by me and every other tax payer. They should either use it properly, or make alternative arrangements.

poet123 wrote: »

The constraints are not in place for the benefit of the child, but for the benefit of the school and the LEA and how they translate into stats for the league tables.

The constraints were in place long before league tables were.

poet123 wrote: »

There are other more wide reaching rules and guidelines that schools would rather parents rigidly adhere to, than the guidelines surrounding taking a term time break.

It's neither a rule nor a guideline, it's the law. My experience is that teachers would prefer it if parents (and children) would in general follow all the rules and guidelines, rather than picking and choosing which ones they want to apply to them. But as most parents won't, teachers have to settle for what they can get.

Zazen999

mogadon wrote: »

It's neither a rule nor a guideline, it's the law.

Can you please post a link to that law.

Cheers :beer:

poet123

Holidays during term time

You should not normally take your child on holiday in term time as it can be disruptive both to your child's education and to the school.


Holidays in term time can only be agreed by the headteacher or someone with appropriate authority. Schools can use their discretion to grant up to 10 days’ authorised absence in a school year if both:

• the parent the child normally lives with applies to the school in advance of the holiday
• there are special reasons for the holiday

Schools can only agree to more than 10 school days’ absence in any school year in exceptional circumstances.


Schools must judge each holiday request on a case by case basis. They can take into consideration:

• the time of year for the proposed trip
• if it's near any exam dates
• your child's overall attendance pattern
• any holidays already taken in the school year
• the age and stage of education of your child
• your wishes
• the ability of your child to catch up the work that they have missed
• the reason why you are taking the time off during term time

Schools should not take into consideration:

• availability of cheap holidays
• availability of desired accommodation
• poor weather experienced in school holiday periods
• overlap with the beginning or end of term

Those are the current guidelines, the discretion lies with the individual headteacher.

Murphy_The_Cat

mogadon wrote: »

Teacher's don't. In fact many employees don't. There are almost 12 weeks of the year when I am not allowed to take my leave,

If you are a parnt/guardian and those 12 weeks corresponded with school holiday times, you really would be between a roack and a hard place, wouldn't you ?
& hypothetically, if that was the case, who would you put at the top of the pile - the happiness of your family, or your job ?

poet123 wrote: »

Holidays during term time

Those are the current guidelines, the discretion lies with the individual headteacher.

that would be guidelines and discretion ,

mogadon

Zazen999 wrote: »

Can you please post a link to that law.

Cheers :beer:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1996/ukpga_19960056_en_1

For application in relation to this discussion look up the High Court Case involving the London Borough of Bromley

poet123 wrote: »

Those are the current guidelines, the discretion lies with the individual headteacher.

I'm sorry if I was unclear, those are the guidelines for Heads authorising leave, they don't apply to parents. This thread is (or was) about unauthorised leave. There are no guidelines for that.

mogadon

Murphy_The_Cat wrote: »

If you are a parnt/guardian and those 12 weeks corresponded with school holiday times, you really would be between a roack and a hard place, wouldn't you ?
& hypothetically, if that was the case, who would you put at the top of the pile - the happiness of your family, or your job ?

For a number of years I was rarely able to holiday with my OH because our permitted holiday times didn't really overlap.

I didn't expect either of our employers to bend the rules to suit us, and I certainly didn't just take time off regardless and ignore the rules. What employer would stand for that?

In the end I found a new job. Until then we did without 'proper' holidays together and took breaks when we could. We both knew the situation with our respective employment. Just as parents do.

Murphy_The_Cat

mogadon wrote: »

I'm sorry if I was unclear, those are the guidelines for Heads authorising leave. This thread is (or was) about unauthorised leave. There are no guidelines for that.

So, the Heads can, if they want to/choose to/use their discretion can, with the tacit approval of the LEA, government and law makers of this country, within certain crieria, authorise 10 days abscence per year.
It's only when they choose not do to do so, that authorised, becomes unauthorised -- is that about the top and bottom of it ?

poet123

JVRMac wrote: »

Hi all

I've just booked a holiday to Florida for next year. We couldn't afford to go in the school holidays so we decided to book it around Whitweek so the kids and hubby would only be off for 1 week out of the term (my husband is a caretaker in a school). So I handed the holiday forms in and have been advised that as from Sept the law has changed and no holidays are allowed in term time. My kids will be in Yr 4 and Yr 2 at Primary School both of them have had 100% attendance since they started and now I am being advised that there absence will be classed as truancy and we will be taken to court and fined £100 per child.
This is the holiday of a lifetime for us, it's costing us £3K just for flights and room only, to book the same hol in the Easter or 6 wk hols the cost rose to just under £5K.
And to top everything else off my husband has told me that he won't have the holidays authorised either.
I can't believe I'm having these problems when we are giving everyone a year's notice, has anyone got any suggestions on what we can do or what our rights are, if we have any?
Many Thanks

JVRMac wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies, firstly when my kids started school the policy was the standard 10 days at the discretion of the School, however as from Sept 2010, there is a new legislation which is being introduced which means no holidays will be authorised, this was apparently introduced by the old government and is something the new government has endorsed and is proceeding ahead with.
The School issued a newsletter advising that from Sept a new holiday policy will be introduced, apparently details of what the policy is will be sent out in Sept. I am assured by the school that this is national and will affect all schools.

As for my DH, he hasn't yet asked at school for his holidays but it does state in his contract hols to be taken outside of term time. However his old boss, who retired earlier this year used to go on holidays out of term time every year for up to 3 weeks, also there are other non teaching staff who have taken unpaid leave when taking holidays in term time.

I don't want my DH to lose his job over it.

mogadon wrote: »

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1996/ukpga_19960056_en_1

For application in relation to this discussion look up the High Court Case involving the London Borough of Bromley





I'm sorry if I was unclear, those are the guidelines for Heads authorising leave. This thread is (or was) about unauthorised leave. There are no guidelines for that.

Actually, if you look at the posts by the OP you will see this thread is about a parent being mislead bya headteacher regarding the enactment of a new law, and hiding behind that fiction to avoid authorising holidays.