School declined holidays and branded the kids truants

sassysar

lorne57 wrote: »

I’ve been reading this thread with interest!

My own thoughts on the matter would be that I don’t think it hurts to take children out of school for a couple of weeks max for a family holiday as long as they are not studying for exams or falling behind in their school work. I don’t think it should be something that is done on a regular basis unless needs must – a friend used to work with colleagues where quite a few of the husbands worked at the same place and the factory would shut down completely for two weeks in June, should they not have been allowed to take their children out of school for a holiday??

My husband and I have been lucky in the fact we’ve always been able to take our holidays when we wanted to within reason so most of the time we went on holiday – when we could afford to - in the school holidays. As we became a little more affluent and decided to venture abroad we have been known to take the week before a school holiday (with the schools permission) as it was usually cheaper!

Did it damage our daughter educationally????? You tell me........she has 10 GCSE’s , 4 A levels, a Foundation Degree and a BA honours degree.........she wasn’t a top A* student just plodded along and tried her best.:T

She’s 24 now and what does she do for a job....................nothing........can’t get a job, interviewed and turned down numerous times, couldn’t even get a job at the local supermarket.:(

Her thoughts on education if you asked her would probably be....it’s overrated, if she had her time over again she says she wouldn’t have gone to university, it hasn’t got her anywhere, she would have gone and got a job and worked her way up instead.

Life is for living and missing one week’s school once a year isn’t going to damage anyone!

Wow you totally hit the nail on the head ......well done !;)

Murphy_The_Cat

malkie76 wrote: »

I've seen your posts on here for some time, and it's clear you are an outstanding parent who takes their parenting extremely seriously. The points I'm raising aren't an attack on you at all, but against some of the points you are raising.

Thats a bit OTT. I'm a regular bloke that loves being a Dad (sadly, I'm rarely Daddy to my son anymore) and always wants to do the 'right thing' for his family. I also appreciate that you are talking about the points that I'm raising and got getting personal, and thats absolutely fine by me :beer:

It's obvious you take all things into consideration before making decisions from some of the questions etc you've asked on these forums. I think you are a pretty solid parent!
I try to be, but I don't think that I'm much different to most people in that respect. Like all things in life, you can only expect to get good things out, if you put good things in !



I completely agree with you, however the point you raise it entirely irrelevant for the discussion at hand.

The point was that when it suited the school to 'waste' my sons time, they do so.



Exactly, and that's my only point - that education is a combination of schools, parents and experiences. Only the three can produce a well rounded student (in my opinion). However, the fundamental point is that all three can be achieved without the need of taking children out of school.

It depends on the mix, where the holiday is going to be and what you are going to be doing on the holiday. Regardless of the time of year, no child is going to pick up much if they are spending a fortnight on a beach in the Med. That isn't my idea of a family holiday, but I know for some people, that fits the bill perfectly

Absolutely not - how can it be the only choice? Please expand on that point.
If the parents working situation makes it impossible to have a family holiday in termtime, then its a simple choice. Either don't have a family holiday, or take the break in term time. BTW, my definition of holiday is a break away from work, with my family. I can be at home, in the UK, or abroard. It isn't important to me. Having some time with my folks is what matters.


There was no real depth to my comment - just highlighting that children are given perfectly adequate breaks from term time to be able to be reasonably flexible in choice of dates for summer travel holidays. It's central to my point that children can experience everything that travel has to offer without the need to risk traditional learning in the school environment.
You are of course correct - but only if the children are able to travel on their own. If their parents are unable to travel with them, its not much of a 'family' holiday.;)

No-one has produced a counter arguement to this stance.

I think that its probably time that I said that I've had numerous holidays in Great Britain with my family, several abroard and some at home. Some have cost a lot, some have cost (relatively) little and some have cost nowt. Some have been in School time and some haven't, but there is a recurring them in all of them.
I have enjoyed every minute, of every holiday with my family and it has always suited us a family to do what we do.

We don't have a problem with it, my lads school doesn't have a problem with us doing so and I can forsee us carrying on with the same regime until his education reaches a (much) more important stage. Until then, the families quality holiday time is going to trump what the LEA would like us to do every time **

** once again, thank you to the School Head for taking the stance that you do. Some parents on here would be enormously grateful if their children had you as their Boss

malkie76

It seems to me that you will argue forever about not taking kids out of school irespective of the positives

There are no positives - certainly none which have been raised in this thread. If you disagree please highlight the positives which cannot be achieved during the school holidays.

sorry, but your answers are often irrelevant to the real world.

Complete nonsense. If you disagree then please provide specific examples.

You also failed to address a direct question, which was do you have experience which would give you something to back up your confident assertion that a child is harmed educationally by having a term time holiday?

Can you please highligh the post where I claimed that a childs education would definitely be harmed by taking them out of school. All I've posted is that there is a risk, and surely any risk, no matter how small is not worth taking when your childs education is the subject.

You do disagree, are you comfortable taking risks with your childs future?

I keep repeating myself as no one is getting the simple point here - leave your child in school, then take them on holiday during the school holidays. If that isn't a financial option every year then consider going on holiday every other year.

As i have previously said and i will say it again there is no evidence that a child will suffer any ill-effects taking them out of school once a year in termtime for a family holiday as long as their attendance record is good.

What figures or statistics is this claim based on? I'd be interested in reading more if there are studies which prove that term time holidays have no impact on the future abilities and successes of school children. If you don't have such figures or statistics then you can't really make that claim.




Why are so many people struggling to grasp the simple point I'm making? Why take any risk where your child is concerned? Why not stick to summer holidays ? I'm failing to see any counter arguement there in the slightest.

poet123

Surely life is about the risk v benefit calculation? as a parent (which I assume you are, being that you make such confident assertions that you have the definitive answer to a parental dilemma) we weigh up risk to our kids every day, and decide where, on balance the risk actually lies, or even if there is a risk.

Do we allow them to walk to school, or take them by car to ensure they arrive safely? do we allow them to go on a school trip (is Alton Towers educational enough to take the risk of harm for?) etcetc.

So, imo, and from a postion of strength (having had 3 graduates go through the system and come to no great harm from my parental risk v benefit calculation) the risk of harm coming to the educational achievement of my child by having a well timed term time holiday is negligable, and one I am perfectly willing to accept when weighed against the holistic benefit of travel to my child,to places which may be out of reach at peak price time.

Nobody is failing to see what you contend, we just disagree with the contention, and wonder at your inability to see the other side of the coin, or provide any supporting evidence that the risk is "actual" and not simply "perceived". ....from experience.

Murphy_The_Cat

malkie76 wrote: »

I keep repeating myself as no one is getting the simple point here - leave your child in school, then take them on holiday during the school holidays. If that isn't a financial option every year then consider going on holiday every other year.

My wife & I are unable to take holidays together in school holiday time.
The only opportunity that we currently get, to have a family holiday, is to take it in term time.
This we do. :beer:

kelloggs36

thommy wrote: »

i beg to differ. cost is very much a rationale if a parent feels that he or she will be improving the quality of a child's life experience. what's the better choice - a week at the end of term watching dvds, playing games, watching it rain through the window, or a week exploring pompeii, athens etc? that week may only be affordable during that term time week.....

What is wrong with saving up over a longer period - ie going the following year? The places aren't going anywhere!

malkie76

Murphy_The_Cat wrote: »

The only opportunity that we currently get, to have a family holiday, is to take it in term time.

I'm not trying to be difficult, but this simply is not true. You could make changes to your lives to enable taking holidays outside of term time. This may not be straight forward nor attractive, but it's incorrect to claim there are no options other than taking holidays during term time.

Everything in this thread is debate about the weight of different options available to people. I'm firm in my stance that taking children out of school is an risk, and in my opinion a risk which is 100% avoidable.

No one is able to counter-argue that.

Murphy_The_Cat

malkie76 wrote: »

I'm not trying to be difficult, but this simply is not true. You could make changes to your lives to enable taking holidays outside of term time. This may not be straight forward nor attractive, but it's incorrect to claim there are no options other than taking holidays during term time.

Everything in this thread is debate about the weight of different options available to people. I'm firm in my stance that taking children out of school is an risk, and in my opinion a risk which is 100% avoidable.

No one is able to counter-argue that.

Perhaps not being difficult, but maybe so entrenched in your opinion that you are unable to see a differing POV.
As I said further up the thread, Mrs Cat & I own a business that is very seasonal, in a very seasonal part of the world. School holiday times are our busiest times (by far) and we are already staff 'down' because they are on holiday with their children.
We could of course close the business, put a dozen or so people out of work, lose a lifetimes work and leave ourselves destitute and homeless - but at least we would be able to holiday in school holiday times ...... hmm, I think I'll pass on that one I think that comes under the heading of not straight forward or attractive.

What is the risk that you keep talking about ? Perhaps once I know what it is, I'll get a better idea of why you are so 'stuck' in your ways :beer:

malkie76

Whats the other POV ? If something 100% avoidable, then why risk it?

Murphy_The_Cat

malkie76 wrote: »

Whats the other POV ? If something 100% avoidable, then why risk it?

Come on malkie, I asked you what the risk is, life is full of all sorts of risks, some that can be minimised, avoided etc.

Which particular one(s) are you talking about ?