New loft hatch needed over sagging lathe and plaster ceiling.

Kaz2904

I'm wondering the best way to go about this. The ceiling is bowed but does not seem to move even when you push it fairly hard. We need to fit a new loft hatch as the one we currently have is silly and nobody can get into the loft when holding anything. Unfortunately the ceiling is our landing one so it's quite high up. If we cut into it and the ceiling comes down, DH will not be happy and will not reboard so someone will have to come in and do it. In my view, I'm quite happy to go ahead and do it anyway because the ceiling is no more or less likely to come down from us than a builder. But (there's always a but!) how easy is this to do? There is no hole there at the moment so we will have to cut one and cut one of the joists. Also, the ladder kit is narrower than the span of the space between 3 joists so (with one removed) is not big enough to join to the other 2 joists. Presumably we anchor this by tying in to the other joist with metal plates, wood and hundreds of screws?
I can't think how to describe it sorry!
All advice apreciated.
Of course if the builder I've asked for a quote ever gets back to me, I'll use him (then I don't have to pick up another ceiling off the floor if it does go). Gah- I hate L&P!

Mankysteve

If you going to punch a new hole ceiling you need to support either side of the celling. The sagging is most likely the plaster coming away. I think you need to speak to a professional to make sure its not a structural issue with your roof.

http://www.diydata.com/carpentry/loft_hatch/loft_hatch.php

Gloomendoom

I've done the same job in a bowed ceiling. It is a right sod because your noggins need to be shaped to suit the curves. Also the loft ladder frame is perfectly straight and square so it doesn't sit flush with the ceiling. No matter how hard you try you will end up making a hell of a mess!

There shouldn't be any need to use metal plates and hundreds of screws. Big nails would be better into the end grain of the cut joists and noggins. Smaller nails to stop the cut laths moving about. Just use screws to fit the ladder frame (if indeed your ladder kit comes with a frame).

ormus

old houses had joists at 400mm centres. if you need to cut a single joist (for a loft hatch) make sure you cut it next to a wall. that way you only need to fix/support that joist end to the other two joists. use the same joist wood to make the end support and then add T or L plates if required. (as extra insurance).

Gloomendoom

ormus wrote: »

old houses had joists at 400mm centres.

I wish the chap that built my house had known that. My old house has joists at entirely random centres.

The problem with cutting the joist close to the wall is that, if the loft ladder is the common three section folding type, it may not have enough room to unfold and/or you won't have enough room in front of it to get access. Remember you need adequate head height above it in the loft too.

Kaz2904

We cant put it next to the wall unfortunately as the only bit next to the wall is where the stairs are :eek:. I managed to get up there earlier and get up the insulation and have a quick look. The bits I could see aren't lathe and plaster any more. The lathes are all gone and it appears to be plaster board. Makes me wonder 1: Why is it sagging- colud be screws not long enough. 2: Why is there no movement in it? I would expect that there would be some movement though.
I shall wait to see what this builder advises!

Thanks for advice so far .

mikey72

Gloomendoom wrote: »

I've done the same job in a bowed ceiling. It is a right sod because your noggins need to be shaped to suit the curves. Also the loft ladder frame is perfectly straight and square so it doesn't sit flush with the ceiling. No matter how hard you try you will end up making a hell of a mess!

There shouldn't be any need to use metal plates and hundreds of screws. Big nails would be better into the end grain of the cut joists and noggins. Smaller nails to stop the cut laths moving about. Just use screws to fit the ladder frame (if indeed your ladder kit comes with a frame).

The only problem I've found with big nails is the rest of the ceiling falls down when you hammer them in.