Graduate Jobs, is it worth applying ?????

Blacksheep1979

Trust me - if it says 2:1 min then they're not going to get it. The HR folks aren't going to see it as someone who is a go-getter/trying their hardest etc they'll see it as someone who hasn't bothered to read the spec or doesn't think the rules apply to them and that they've wasted thirty secs of their time (the HR folks) in reading up to the part that says 2:2.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Rosie75 wrote: »

Yes, I understand that - I'm not saying that a first at the OU is not the same as any other top university. I'm simply pointing out that marking schemes are different in virtually every university. If students had to average 80 at the University I work at now in order to get a first, no one in my department would have got a first in the last ten years (at least!). This discrepancy is actually a huge problem for students who want to go on to postgraduate study - or it was until the research councils changed their funding system to block funding. Since the AHRC (and, I assume, other research councils as well) can't or won't distinguish between a university which effectively marks out of 80, and one which marks out of 100, students in the former kind of university end up losing out in funding competitions.

Sorry - am I missing something - I'm talking about 85%, so the equivalent in these Universities which mark out of 80 would be 0.85 X 80 = 68.

Didn't realise that research councils find it difficult to understand the concept of percentages.

Rosie75

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

Sorry - am I missing something - I'm talking about 85%, so the equivalent in these Universities which mark out of 80 would be 0.85 X 80 = 68.

Didn't realise that research councils find it difficult to understand the concept of percentages.

I think the research councils just haven't bothered to acquaint themselves with the various mark scales at different universities.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

It would seem logical for those universities to switch to percentage scales. It's a simple enough calculation, even for someone educated by the Open University!

The_One_Who

Getting an 80 is pretty darn good, of 'publishable quality' usually if the university uses the more common mark scheme. Although my university use a sort-of percentage system, in that it is perfectly possible to receive full marks for an essay. It doesn't make much sense to me since no essay is ever perfect.

bristol_pilot

Hermia wrote: »

...she had done her ECDL ....

:rotfl:



There has been a good deal of grade inflation over the last 20+ years, commensurate with a government policy of stuffing 50% of school leavers through uni whether they have the ability or not. When I did my degree 25 years ago, only 10% of the population went to university and a 2:2 was a respectable result - it meant you were mainstream rather than a high flyer, but still very employable. 50% of students were thrown out after first year exams on my course and 30% after the second year. Those that remained mostly got a degree that was then worth something. Few people got a 2:1 and very few (often no-one) got a 1st. At that time, some employers actually preferred a 2:2 as they thought it indicated a more practical type of person rather than an egg-head. How times have changed! Now you get a 2:2 just for turning up and no student - sorry, 'customer' - can ever be allowed to fail anything. Academically undemanding courses such as 'event management' abound. However, employers are not fooled by any of this and still want the top 10% of the available applicants. That is why a 2:1 is now usually required for graduate schemes and many professional institutions are demanding a Masters degree for membership. The fact that a university graduate has felt it necessary to undertake an ECDL (a qualification that shows you can switch a computer on and click a mouse) speaks volumes.

bristol_pilot

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

It will also depend on her work experience and how she has spent her time whilst studying. Someone with a 2:2 who has been actively involved in voluntary work/student organisations/work experience placements will be in a better position than someone with a 2:1 who has just studied and worked in McDonalds.

No. Not for a grad scheme that specifies 2:1 min. For open applications with no min. degree specified, then maybe. The days when having run the university rugby club will make up for a poor degree result are well and truly over.

melancholly

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

And the average quality of the research produced by the OU is actually rated higher than Oxbridge.

Erm.... really? A lot of tutors for the OU actually come in from other unis. Don't get me wrong, the OU is great in many ways, but I think that's a statement that's impossible to substantiate. For a start, they didn't enter into the Times League tables this year and the 2008 RAE indicates that they only entered just over half their staff and certainly were no-where near the top 25!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/table/2008/dec/18/rae-2008-results-uk-universities

I'm all for interesting debates, but I also like to see facts rather than pure speculation!

SUPERMCNATURAL

bristol pilot: i think its quite offensive to say people with a 2:2 get their degree for just turning up....................... im a masters student and their are one or two on my course who got 2:2's and believe me they didnt get it for just turning up????? and my cousin, whom this post originally started with, worked hard for her results.

minerva_windsong

whacks wrote: »

Im not sure how the rankings work for Uni's? Is it based on how good the teaching is and how good the overall structure for learning is?

If so surely someone getting a 2:1 from a lesser University shows greater commitment/ability then someone getting a 2:1 from a top University.

Rankings differ depending which guide you read, as they're all assessed on different criteria - the Guardian, for example, focuses mainly on teaching quality, whereas the Times places slightly more emphasis on the student experience and job prospects for graduates.

Personally I wouldn't bother applying for grad schemes that specify a 2:1 or above if you don't have it or aren't expected to get it, because chances are they won't look at the application, especially as the bigger grad schemes can effectively pick and choose who they want as they'll get so many candidates. So you've put time and effort into something that wasn't really worth it when you could have put that time towards applying for something else.

That said I've been job hunting for the last year (I graduated last summer with a 2:1 from a top 10 university) and most of the jobs I've applied to haven't specified a degree level when they have asked for a degree - and not that many have even explicitly said that - so not getting on a grad scheme isn't necessarily going to condemn you to a life of scrubbing toilets or flipping burgers. Plus, as others have said, extracurricular activites can be equally useful in demonstrating criteria such as teamwork and leadership, and show you as a more rounded person - not saying people with Firsts aren't rounded, but more that it's bad if all your experience is academic, if you see my point. I think talking up being in a political society and writing for the uni newspaper have helped me get to the interview stage on quite a few occasions.

Also, you'd be surprised how many companies don't offer to pay your interview expenses, especially if you live in London and are applying for a job there (although for the amount it costs to go on the Tube it's probably not worth the hassle admin-wise on their part). Similarly, I've had interviews where I had to travel overnight but have only been offered the option to have the costs of that covered once, although I didn't take it. Charities tend not to offer expenses, but I suppose that's understandable due to limited funding. I'm also currently applying for a job where I would have to be heavily involved in recruiting interns, so whilst it is normally fairly senior people - the head of the department and the person who would be your direct boss tend to be the most common one, plus someone from HR - it isn't always.