Why State Finances are in a 2s8d, why the ConDems won't fix it & why it's your fault

lemonjelly

chucky wrote: »

it actually doesn't.

when house property prices fall less people are actually able to buy property.

Got that one wrong mate. See, there's loads of people on here already got massive deposits already...In fact, most'd buy outright!;)

chucky

lemonjelly wrote: »

Got that one wrong mate. See, there's loads of people on here already got massive deposits already...In fact, most'd buy outright!;)

i know i'm not wrong on this one

i always love the talk about that standard issue 6 house deposit of £1,000.00

dopester

davilown wrote: »

Labour would have done no different to this, albeit on a different starting time.

Labour would and did do it differently. They don't have the stomach for tough decisions. They want to be adored.

If the coalition had been in sooner, say in 2008-2009, we wouldn't have seen the massive extra wild splurge to "stop the recession" - with billions extra spent on consultants and the like. Greenlighting other very expensive projects which should have been reviewed or cancelled. (Can Labour ever say "No", or ask for a discount?) All the stop the recession money has left us now in even bigger trouble.

Under Labour 1997> we've seen a change in mindset where people have come to expect lots of freebies and kickbacks courtesy of nanny state - imo. Partly that explains, for me, didn't do so badly at the election, especially in areas where people less willing or able to

I think Thatcher did draw some lines about what Gov would and would not be prepared to pay for (Milk Snatcher) - leading to more self responsibility. What other freebies were there under Thatcher or Major Gen? Labour brought in the Winter Fuel Allowance, iirc. That whole concept of personal responsibility been blown away under Nanny Labour.

The winter fuel allowance was introduced shortly after Labour came to power in 1997 to help alleviate financial hardship for the elderly whose health could be put at risk by them deciding not to keep their heating on for long periods during the winter months.

Generali wrote: »

Absolutely right.

Why are people earning well in excess of £50,000 a year able to claim family tax credit? So that more people feel beholden to the State for their income.

Thatcher's failure was that she never broke that mindset despite never standing on a platform of buying millions of votes by increasing spending. Every election since has been won by the party prepared to offer the most outlandish promises.

There was a very good article in the FT a few days ago saying that in the past 2 weeks, Labour MPs had promised to spend £7,000,000,000 on community projects. The politics of the UK are such that the Tories can't stand on a platform that says, "We'll not build a new village hall" (or whatever).

davilown

Labour would and did do it differently. They don't have the stomach for tough decisions. They want to be adored.

I understand what you're saying, I always got the feeling that Alistair Darling wanted to say no but Brown wouldn't let him. I would have liked to see him stay on in advisory way for the coalition as I felt he would have enormous amount to offer an incoming goverment. But then, that would have been allowed

If the coalition had been in sooner, say in 2008-2009, we wouldn't have seen the massive extra wild splurge to "stop the recession" - with billions extra spent on consultants and the like. Greenlighting other very expensive projects which should have been reviewed or cancelled. (Can Labour ever say "No", or ask for a discount?) All the stop the recession money has left us now in even bigger trouble.

Under Labour 1997> we've seen a change in mindset where people have come to expect lots of freebies and kickbacks courtesy of nanny state - imo. Partly that explains, for me, didn't do so badly at the election, especially in areas where people less willing or able to

I think Thatcher did draw some lines about what Gov would and would not be prepared to pay for (Milk Snatcher) - leading to more self responsibility. What other freebies were there under Thatcher or Major Gen? Labour brought in the Winter Fuel Allowance, iirc. That whole concept of personal responsibility been blown away under Nanny Labour.

IMO, the tories spend little, or just enough to keep the country running, but let the services wind their way down. Labour then come in and spend the money saved in the previous parliaments and then some more in time for the next tory government to spend less, tax more.
A vicious circle perhaps?

davilown

chucky wrote: »

i always love the talk about that standard issue 6 house deposit of £1,000.00

Stupid question but can you explain this?

StevieJ

Generali wrote: »

I agree. Why take responsibility for your income during your working years when you need to make £25,000pa (apparently) to make more than you would on benefits? Why save for your retirement when you need to scrape together £250,000 (apparently) to have an income higher than the MIG?

I don't want people to be poor but I feel that the alternative as currently seen at least is worse.

Disingenuous, most receive the state pension, the MIG is only the extra.

chucky

davilown wrote: »

Stupid question but can you explain this?

it's just a joke about people saying that when house prices drop they will be able to buy the house in cash and have a 20% mortgage and the rest paid in cash. there's been quite a few people claiming it in the past. the six figure comment was £100,000 compared to £1,000.00. just a joke.

btw it wasn't directed at you

lemonjelly

dopester wrote: »

I think Thatcher did draw some lines about what Gov would and would not be prepared to pay for (Milk Snatcher) - leading to more self responsibility. What other freebies were there under Thatcher or Major Gen? Labour brought in the Winter Fuel Allowance, iirc. That whole concept of personal responsibility been blown away under Nanny Labour.

dopester I generally admire your posts. However I disagree with you here on a major philosophical point.

I would assert that Tatcher et al actually started off the withdrawal of self responsibility. I believe Thatcher sowed the seeds of "what is in it for me?", and "what can I get out of this" and even "how can I get away without paying for...".

Thatcher created the greed is good ethos. This rise of selfishness, individualism. This was then taken advantage of (or even fraudulently abused) under the labour regime which didn't see it.

Thatcher installed the "me, me, me" culture. The lack of personal responsibility has arisen from the removal of people as being part of a society, part of a community. We are more responsible when we see that our actions/inactions impact on others in big ways. By refusing to take responsibility for our actions/inactions, we are effectively saying "I don't care about you, only me".

The culture of the individual was cultivated & has grown from Thatcher's idea of the individual coming first - before society/others.

lemonjelly

StevieJ wrote: »

Disingenuous, most receive the state pension, the MIG is only the extra.

Partially true. In addition, MIG disappeared in 2004 when it was replaced by Pension Credit.

davilown

chucky wrote: »

it's just a joke about people saying that when house prices drop they will be able to buy the house in cash and have a 20% mortgage and the rest paid in cash. there's been quite a few people claiming it in the past. the six figure comment was £100,000 compared to £1,000.00. just a joke.

btw it wasn't directed at you

Ah I understand now

No, I'll never have that size deposit