NatWest - Online Statement Shenanigans?

NatwestAteMyHamster

Like a lot of families we're keeping an eye on every single payment we make right now - money's tight and we really have none to spare.

A couple of years ago we were in a situation where we were incurring a couple of charges every month so we set ourselves up with NatWest's online banking service.

We now find that charges are rare but they sadly DO still happen... but we've been a little suspicious of NatWest's online balance and today I think we've caught them "at it".

We incurred a charge last month because (our fault!) we forgot that we had a £5-ish interest charge going out, that took us overdrawn and incurred a £35 charge.

That should have gone out just after midnight yesterday (7th June) but didn't show. We realised last night that it may not have gone and telephoned the bank.

"It's okay" they said, "the charge has gone and your balance covered it". We were 99% sure it HADN'T gone and that our balance wouldn't cover it, but the call-centre operative assured us that it had.

I checked the balance at 6:30 this morning (8th June, 30 hours after charge was due to be paid) and the charge still hadn't been shown and the final balance on the statement was -£444 which left us £56 away from our overdraft limit (£500).

Our WFTC payment for the 8th had started showing (in pink, clearing) so a recent update to the figures had defnitely been made and our balance was back in the sub-overdraft black.

At 8:00am my partner looked at the screen and the charges had been shuffled in about ten entries before the end of the ledger, and the final balance was now -£505. The timeline of screenshots that I took is very interesting, and it definitely shows shenanigans afoot.

How DOES this work? Can banks change the statement/balance 32 hours after a payment is made WITHIN THEIR OWN SYSTEM?

Whenever we ask NatWest how they arrive at their "Live" balance (their words, not mine) they say they don't have to tell us and that we have the option of returning to paper statements.

Here are my questions;

Can I ask NatWest for the referral charge back as they told me I didn't need to transfer anything into the account to cover the charge of the 7th June (when clearly I DID need to)?

Does anyone else find that their online service (particularly NatWest) is a bit, well, dodgy?

Don't even get me started on "Fast Payment Services". Morrisons payments sometimes come back into the bank and stay there for three weeks AND show as available balance at cashpoints. In my humble opinion this is charge-farming of the worst sort!

HappyMJ

How fascinating it's been almost 1 year since your last post and for exactly the same thing....and the answer is still the same. The charges come out at midnight dated the prior day but not always exactly at midnight it may be much later. I have a Natwest account and yes it seems to require a lot of note taking as payments made may not actually be taken for a few more days. My latest transaction was made on the 2nd of June and the money came out today the 8th dated yesterday the 7th. You need to remember what transactions are yet to appear and take that into account when at the cashpoint.

KPR11

I bank with NatWest and I know what you mean about payments not appearing for a couple of days, this does happen when the payment date is a weekend.

Take it as a lesson learnt and I appreciate things may be tight but try not to skate so close to the limit. Next time try an work backwards, i.e. what was your available balance before bills / payments were suppose to go out, how much are the bills and payments for, add a buffer of £10 to £20 and deduct that from your OD limit / available balance which is essentially the money you have available for other bills / to spend.

Also make use of the pre-advice service that Natwest has showing you how much interest and charges you have incurred and when it is due to go out. This together with a list of DD should tell you all you need to know except for the card payments that you make.

Good luck

NatwestAteMyHamster

I accept that we've been less than efficient in the past, but in the last year we've become much better and now we write a paper list (remember those? ) of every transaction we make.

The issue here is that we added the charge+interest to our ledger for the 7th of June.

At 22:00 on the 7th the payment still wasn't showing... it was finally taken between 6:30am and 8:00am on the 8th.

More concerning is that NatWest told us on the phone at 22:00 (7th) that the payment had gone and cleared. We had the opportunity to transfer money from a friend to cover the charge and any other queued payments.

How could NatWest "see" that the payment had gone when it hadn't... and how can a "close of business" transfer (their words again) occur mid-morning? We've now incurred a further charge through being given an incorrect statement from the bank.

Our own failings are something we're dealing with and I think we've made a great deal of improvement... I just feel that NatWest are making it more difficult to keep track of things.

pmduk

I've learned the hard way to assume that items will come out a few days before they are due. It's helped me avoid bank charges so far.

Bogof_Babe

Rather than a paper list, couldn't you keep a spreadsheet running? That way all the calculations are done for you and you don't have to work the figures out. I do this and it is second nature now to enter every transaction plus all regular outgoings.

NatwestAteMyHamster

I should have been clearer... the paper list is next to our paper calendar, all payments go straight onto there when they're made by phone, the interwebs, or when we get in from shopping. They're than transcribed to a permanent spreadsheet.

The paper list exists for the sake of convenience, it's directly accessible without logging on / starting Excel (other good SS software is also available).

KPR11

NatwestAteMyHamster wrote: »

I accept that we've been less than efficient in the past, but in the last year we've become much better and now we write a paper list (remember those? ) of every transaction we make.

The issue here is that we added the charge+interest to our ledger for the 7th of June.

At 22:00 on the 7th the payment still wasn't showing... it was finally taken between 6:30am and 8:00am on the 8th.

More concerning is that NatWest told us on the phone at 22:00 (7th) that the payment had gone and cleared. We had the opportunity to transfer money from a friend to cover the charge and any other queued payments.

How could NatWest "see" that the payment had gone when it hadn't... and how can a "close of business" transfer (their words again) occur mid-morning? We've now incurred a further charge through being given an incorrect statement from the bank.

Our own failings are something we're dealing with and I think we've made a great deal of improvement... I just feel that NatWest are making it more difficult to keep track of things.

I am not sure what they told you is relevant because if you are keeping a running total then you would know whether it has gone out or not and since the running total would flag up that it hasn't gone out you should not have spent the money allocated for it or made sure there is sufficient funds to cover the next direct debit.

What you need to start doing is a reconciliation between your spreadsheet and your available balance. That way you will factor in any payments that have been made but not left your bank account and vice versa if it makes sense?

NatwestAteMyHamster

You're absolutely right, of course!

The issue late on the 7th was that we couldn't see that the payment had gone and our records told us that it probably hadn't.

However, because neither online customers nor NatWest can see what gets paid INTO your account by merchants it's not always possible to know what is where.

Several of our payments this week were for £20, the charges were for £40. Had £40 been paid or had two lots of £20 been removed? You don't find out about those movements for a week or so... so we relied on a phone call to the bank.

The bank said that the charge HAD been cleared and that we had no need to transfer any money to the account. Retrospectively that advice was wrong.

Do we have a case to ask them to refund that charge? We've already had one charge refunded in the last 12 months (NatWest's limit is one refund per calendar year).

This goes towards the point I was trying to make... even with a paper ledger, a spreadsheet AND the online balance screen there are things that are invisible even to the bank (or so they say).

mummytotwo_3

I do sympathise, as i used to bank with natwest and do know what you are talking about with the charges. The amount though is available to you online and the date its due to debit. I have noticed with them that even though they are due on a certain day eg 28th of a month, they dont actually show until the 29th on the online statement but they were always dated for the 28th. I think its generally how natwest works!

I though run a double cashbook, writing all my income and expenditure down in it, reconcilling it with the online banking, and then when the paper statement lands on my mat I reconcile that with the book, so i end up with cross alongside each item. It may sound long winded or tedius but to me its worth it, especially when my hubby was unemployed. This may come from the fact that I used to work for a high street bank (not natwest) and now work as an accounts assistant - so this is really second nature to me.