Hand-made tiles

handyman.

alan, cheers for the link:beer:

BobProperty

kittiwoz wrote:

Well, if something has been made by a skilled craftsperson it shouldn't look anything like a badly made third grade reject. .....

So how does one tell them apart? That's my point. What should I look for to tell me that one tile is craftsman made and another is bashed out by some exploited kid in the third world?

kittiwoz

I'm not an expert in tiles and I don't know who makes the badly made ones or whether they're exploited or not. What I'm trying to say is that hand-made goods can be of a very high quality. Just look at that link provided by Adam_M. You could never confuse those tiles with "badly made third grade rejects". The quality is apparent. If something looks like it is of a low quality (it is uneven for example) then it is because it is. It may be hand-made to a low quality but, frankly, so what? I don't like it when things that are hand-made badly are overpriced on grounds of their "authenticity" because it encourages the idea that hand-made things have to be crude. Obviously this idea has been promoted quite successfully for you to think you would have difficulty in telling well made and badly made things apart. Do you really need a specific check list?

If ceramics are crude, uneven, wonky, have uneven texturing, have flawed glaze etc. those are not desirable properties, even if they are hand-made. If a jumper has arms of slightly different lenghts and dropped stiches those are not desirable properties, even if it is hand-knit. If you go out to a restaurant and find one of the chef's hairs in your dinner that also isn't a delightful and charming affirmation of your meal's genuine hand-made provenance.

point3

Hmm :think: . Some interesting comments...

The tiles I have are from British ceramicist Alice Gibbons (whom I don't think is being exploited). I know they were hand made because they have an unique limited edition ID number in the corner. They were chosen because they featured the work of Thomas Watling (convicted 18th century forger as well as an accomplished artist!) and were both aesthetically pleasing and historically interesting. OK, cheap they ain't, but proceeds do go towards the Natural History Museum...

I wasn't looking to criticise the quality of these tiles - only to look for hints as to how to best affix these .

handyman.

have you done them yet?

point3

handyman. wrote:

have you done them yet?

No...still psyching myself up :rotfl:

BobProperty

kittiwoz wrote:

I wouldn't be happy if they were very iregular.

handyman. wrote:

they are very overpriced for what they are (badly made tiles)

kittiwoz wrote:

I'm not an expert in tiles and I don't know who makes the badly made ones..... What I'm trying to say is that hand-made goods can be of a very high quality.

And all I'm saying is just because they are "hand-made" doesn't make them high quality craftman produced products even if they are marketed and priced as such.

kittiwoz wrote:

Just look at that link provided by Adam_M. You could never confuse those tiles with "badly made third grade rejects". The quality is apparent. If something looks like it is of a low quality (it is uneven for example) then it is because it is. It may be hand-made to a low quality but, frankly, so what?

So don't pretend that they are high quality and sell them at a ridiculously high price - this is supposed to be a money saving forum.

kittiwoz wrote:

I don't like it when things that are hand-made badly are overpriced on grounds of their "authenticity" because it encourages the idea that hand-made things have to be crude.

Am I losing the plot here but didn't you just say "so what?" to that?

kittiwoz wrote:

Obviously this idea has been promoted quite successfully for you to think you would have difficulty in telling well made and badly made things apart.

I hope that "you" was a general "you". I haven't needed to compare the quality of tiles, but when I do Alan_M will be one of the people who I will ask.

kittiwoz wrote:

Do you really need a specific check list?

I think it would be useful for the readers of this forum, yes.

kittiwoz wrote:

If ceramics are crude, uneven, wonky, have uneven texturing, have flawed glaze etc. those are not desirable properties, even if they are hand-made......

and I take it that's your checklist?

kittiwoz

I genuinely don't understand why are you arguing with me BobProperty. could you please explain your problem with what I am saying?

BobProperty wrote:

And all I'm saying is just because they are "hand-made" doesn't make them high quality craftman produced products even if they are marketed and priced as such.

I never said that because thing are hand made it means they are high quality craftsman produced products. I said I don't like to see hand-made things which are not high quality being marketed as though they are and being sold at ridiculously high prices. Apart from that it's a rip-off I think when flaws are passed of as all part of the charm it reflects badly on hand-made goods generally.

BobProperty wrote:

So don't pretend that they are high quality and sell them at a ridiculously high price - this is supposed to be a money saving forum.

When did I try to sell anything? I don't even know anyone who sells tiles. My dad teaches ceramics and he only made about five encaustic tiles as a project. He didn't sell them although actually I think they were pretty high quality. They were certainly pretty even in shape and size which is why I initially wondered whether the OP might have been overcharged for authentic hand made wobbles.

BobProperty wrote:

Am I losing the plot here but didn't you just say "so what?" to that?

What I meant by that is so what if something is hand-made badly, it is still made badly so "so what" if it is hand made. Not "so what" that it is made badly. I thought I had made my position pretty clear when I said:

kittiwoz wrote:

It sounds like when you see crudely thrown mugs with loads of thumb prints in them sold for extortionate prices in gift shops and they charge extra for the bad workmanship because it proves they are hand made.

and that:

kittiwoz wrote:

That whole thing anoys me because it promulgates the idea that hand made means crudely made which I think does a great disservice to crafts and craftspeople.

I hope that "you" was a general "you". I haven't needed to compare the quality of tiles, but when I do Alan_M will be one of the people who I will ask.

Well you are the one who keeps asking me. Increasingly I think only in an attempt to really wind me up and upset me since it is such a stupid question with a self evident answer. Maybe I have too many bug-bears of which overpriced amateurish hand-crafts is just one but I don't think it's nice for you to torment me just because I get passionate about certain, mostly highly unfashionable causes, eg. public art.

BobProperty wrote:

I think it would be useful for the readers of this forum, yes.

Don't you think that's unfair? I never claimed to be any sort of ceramics expert, I just know a little bit because I've picked stuff up from my dad and I said that in my very first post on this topic.

As far as the rest of the posters on this forum are concerned I would just like to offer my apologies for your having been burdened with this ridiculous unhelpful argument and to offer my assurance that I will not be contributing to it beyond this post. My intention in my initial post was only to make the OP aware that while hand-made tiles will never have the levels of uniformity of a mass produced product neither is it a necessary outcome of the production process that they be very uneven because I thought that might be useful to them. I'm sorry I followed that up with my own personal opinion on the way hand-crafted goods are often marketed and priced which is not strictly on-topic and not helpful to the OP. It genuinely never occurred to me that it would be courting the type of controversy that has transpired. Thanks also to Alan_M for the link. I'm not in the market for any tiles or likely to be for a very long time but those are really beautiful and looking at them reminded me of being in the Philharmonic pub in Liverpool.