How to get a large balance on credit card and then remove it?

Tiddlywinks

MrChips wrote: »

As far as I understand, fraud is "deception for financial gain". Where is the deception? The claim event is genuine, the balance on my card is genuine, albeit temporary.

Yes, your OH may be having a baby BUT you will be using that event as a vehicle to make a higher claim by buying goods you have no intention of keeping to artificially inflate your balance in order to claim a higher amount on the insurance. If that's not "deception" then I don't know what is.

It isn't a loophole it is fraud - you know that - you just want help in how to be clever about it.

MrChips

Thanks zppp, I hope you didn't interpret my comments as "arguing" - that really wasn't my intention - more like lively debate

I really am very grateful for all the opinions so far. Opinion seems to be slightly divided so maybe I should ring the card provider and ask them some "hypothetical" questions.

For anyone who loves reading small print, and wants to decide for themselves, the policy wording can be found here:

http://www.mbna.co.uk/insurance/files/CP0608_INSU_MB_LP_D.pdf

MrChips

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

Yes, your OH may be having a baby BUT you will be using that event as a vehicle to make a higher claim by buying goods you have no intention of keeping to artificially inflate your balance in order to claim a higher amount on the insurance. If that's not "deception" then I don't know what is.

It isn't a loophole it is fraud - you know that - you just want help in how to be clever about it.

Is it the "artificial" inflating of the balance that tips this into fraud? If I go out and max the credit card on purchases (which I keep) and then pay off the card the day after the birth, is that reasonable?

CannyJock

MrChips wrote: »

For anyone who loves reading small print, and wants to decide for themselves, the policy wording can be found here:

http://www.mbna.co.uk/insurance/files/CP0608_INSU_MB_LP_D.pdf

Page 6, Clause 6 might be argued depending on what they interpet as "mislead us" - I'd take the view it's more relating to faking the birth of your child rather than referring to inflating the balance

Page 16, so long as you're not making more than 1 claim within a 12 month period, I can't see a problem.

I don't agree that what you're doing is fraudulent. All you're doing is taking the time to understand the terms and conditions of a product and then looking to maximise the benefit you receive from the product.

The BMW option, I suspect they'd apply a 2.5% deduction to any refund to cover their merchant fee on the initial deposit paid by credit card.

Another option would be to buy gift vouchers and sell them at face value to friends and family to help you out I'd help one of my mates out on a wangle like this if they offered to buy me a pint or two for my trouble

Degenerate

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

Yes, your OH may be having a baby BUT you will be using that event as a vehicle to make a higher claim by buying goods you have no intention of keeping to artificially inflate your balance in order to claim a higher amount on the insurance. If that's not "deception" then I don't know what is.

It isn't a loophole it is fraud - you know that - you just want help in how to be clever about it.

There is no such thing as an "artificial" credit card balance. Purchases charged to the card are purchases charged to the card, it's as simple as that. No-one has to explain their reasoning for making a particular purchase.

That said, I'll be surprised if they haven't caught this in the T&Cs somewhere, for example there might be a clause to claw back the 15% from any refunds to the card. Definitely time to study the small print.

MrChips

Clause 13 could also be used to argue I hadn't taken reasonable steps to minimise their ongoing liability perhaps.

I have to say I agree with you, although clearly I am not impartial! I am inclined to call them tomorrow and run a few scenarios past them on an anonymous basis.

CannyJock

Degenerate wrote: »

That said, I'll be surprised if they haven't caught this in the T&Cs somewhere, for example there might be a clause to claw back the 15% from any refunds to the card. Definitely time to study the small print.

Nothing I can see. Unless there's any additional documents on restrictions on making a claim, seem pretty straight forward.

Only bit that's not clear to me is whether they pay 5% of the balance of the card at the time of the event for 3 months, or whether they pay 5% of the balance at the time of the event, then 5% of the balance a month later, and the final 5% 2 months after which would scupper the 15% plan on a quick refund

MrChips

Degenerate wrote: »

There is no such thing as an "artificial" credit card balance. Purchases charged to the card are purchases charged to the card, it's as simple as that. No-one has to explain their reasoning for making a particular purchase.

That said, I'll be surprised if they haven't caught this in the T&Cs somewhere, for example there might be a clause to claw back the 15% from any refunds to the card. Definitely time to study the small print.

There is no such condition

They have written a policy that pays out 15% of a number controlled by me on a date that is to a certain extent predictable by me. That is careless and while I may be cheeky to take advantage I don't think it fraudulant.

MrChips

CannyJock wrote: »

Nothing I can see. Unless there's any additional documents on restrictions on making a claim, seem pretty straight forward.

Only bit that's not clear to me is whether they pay 5% of the balance of the card at the time of the event for 3 months, or whether they pay 5% of the balance at the time of the event, then 5% of the balance a month later, and the final 5% 2 months after which would scupper the 15% plan on a quick refund

Well to me it reads clearly like the former, although during my last claim the phone rep said it is the latter. I assumed they were just clueless! I'd be prepared to argue my case as the definition of monthly benefit is 5% of the claim event balance which is what is owed on the date of the birth.

[Deleted User]

MrChips wrote: »

They have written a policy that pays out 15% of a number controlled by me on a date that is to a certain extent predictable by me. That is careless and while I may be cheeky to take advantage I don't think it fraudulant.

MrChips - I admire your candour. While I don't think I would do the same as you, and it may or may not be more than 'cheeky', you've clearly thought it through.

I trust, however, should your other half have twins or more, you will be asking them for 30% of the balance or whatever multiple best represents the outcome. Septuplets should clear the balance and provide a modest cash bonus to boot.