leaving UK, but want to keep property here - advice please !

driver8_2

Hoping someone can advise, as there seems to be plenty of helpful people around here !

Sometime in the next few years we hope to emigrate, but would like to keep property here in the UK as a long term investment. This is for 2 main reasons :
- there's a small chance we may return to UK, and this is the only way we could hope to stay on the property ladder;
- to provide a pension in retirement (either selling, or living off rental income);
- (we are lucky enough not to need and are not expecting any short term income.)

So our thought processes have gone like this -

* our current 3 bed semi (no mortgage) is 40 yrs old and may need improving in the next 10 years (rewiring, new boiler, new roof) so we should sell and buy newish, to avoid major improvements & maintenance costs, and for better compliance with building H&S regs.

* should we buy flat or house ? We are thinking longer term that house might be the better investment. Firstly to actually own the land, secondly to reduce outlay on ground rent and maintenance. Also, there seems to be a large quantity of flats being built nowadays - could there be a surplus ?

* should we buy 1 larger property or 2 smaller ones ? Single place equals cheaper & less hassle to buy, and fewer problems tenant-wise, but 2 places means less risk of zero rent during empty period, plus greater income from the 2 rentals.

* to get an agent to manage the property is an essential - Reeds Rains seem well established and competitively priced.

Phew !

So has anyone else been in this situation ? What did you decide to do ?

Can anyone think of any other things we need to consider ?

Thanks for any pointers.

realwildone

You like this country that much your leaving....but you want to keep your house so no one else can buy it...charming

lynzpower

Why dont you jsut sell the house and put the money in the bank as an investment, at least you know the money ( and the house!) will be still there if and when you return.

Personally, i think this is a waste of time & energy, you have an asset, Id liquidate it TBH. Otherwise you will be paying for
a) annual gas & electric safety checks
b) all banking transactions needed
c) management fees
d) new washing machines, carpets, and so forth from here on in
e) how can you effectively evict tenants when you are overseas?
f) legal fees and charges and manageing the legal system
g) How are you going to manage the property, ie redecorate?
h) voids
i) flights back to the UK ( one of my previous LLs had to come back 3x during our 1 yeart tenancy, only from ireland tho, so there was at least £600 she had to "find" to come back, and it was clear she hadnt budgeted for these ( when she tried to charge us for them when we were moving out :rotfl: )

As one person who wants to emigrate to another, I just could not be bothered with all this hassle on the "just in case"

You say you wouldnt be able to afford something on your return ( which may or may not happen? Once you take into account all of these costs... And presuming that house prices will rise,rise, rise, rise, rise, rise from here on in.

Does seem rather greedy to have 2 flats ( WHY, you only can live in one place at a time, and potentially double the amount of grief)

lush_walrus

I have to say I agree with the others, it will prove to be a very stressful thing to have a property so remote from where you are let out.

Letting is pretty stressful at the best of times, without the added complication of being abroad. What about investing in the country you are going to and letting out there? Seems like a simpler option to me.

If you do let out here, then you will have to put an enormous trust in the EAs who are managing it to find tennants, monitor tennants and keep you abreast of any problems occuring. Believe me, I am yet to come across an EA (And I have a small chain of EAs myself) who will actually do very much with regards to making sure a tennant is looking after your property for you when you are so far away. Generally, the EA will get the tennant (regardless of what they tell you) and leave it till the tennant moves on, don't buy into any of the nonsense about them checking on the tennants, as they will not unless you keep them under pressure. What happens when the tennant stops paying? What happens when the property needs repairing and you are unable to come and look for yourself that the work actually needs doing?

I would personally say don't do it, but if you really are set on it then do not invest in a flat as if anything goes wrong with the market flats are the first to fall in value, also you will be lumbered paying maintainance costs, ground rent etc and every year that passes the clock is ticking against a lease. A small 2 bed house is far more cost effective and profitable in most areas.

pawpurrs

I would keep a property here over 50% of people who immigrate come back. If property prices carry on rising, you could well not have the chance as you could be priced out of the property market, looking at a long term incvestment rarther than short term having a property is unlikely to be a bad investment even if you dont ever come back to the UK.

For rental purposes two small properties will normally yield a better ratio, Buy to let is no longer profitable in most areas but but some more so than others, you could potentially buy anywhere in the uk, so research your areas well.

aderbyshirelad

realwildone wrote:

You like this country that much your leaving....but you want to keep your house so no one else can buy it...charming

This kind of post drives me nuts. As you yourself note, realwildone, "...but you want to keep YOUR house".

Damned by your own words.

It isthe OPs house and they can do with it as they wish. Or are you suggesting that having saved a deposit and made mortgage payments that it should be taken from them by the state? Would you like to suggest the proportion of the proceeds the state might generoulsy give them? Maybe the price of a one-way air fare to wherever they are going?

The OP does not state why they are leaving the country, and I dare say it did not even cross your mind that it may be due to such circumstances as the illness of a family member etc.?

Even if it's because they can no longer stand to be here why should they have to sell up if they don't need to?

By keeping their own house (bad, evil people that they clearly are), they will not be depriving anyone else of a house by their actions. Apparently, some people rent their homes, not because they can't afford to buy but because they perfer renting due to personal circumstance and the flexibility it offers etc etc.

So, if they did sell up, it would mean they were depriving someone who wished to rent. Which is worst, depriving a renter or a buyer?

Or rather a more apt question:
What on earth is your point? Do I detect a whiff of envy....

PoorDave

realwildone wrote:

You like this country that much your leaving....but you want to keep your house so no one else can buy it...charming

Are you a homeowner realwildone?

aderbyshirelad

Following my rant at an earlier unhelpful reply to your question, I think I should at least try and offer some help and advice.

My wife and I will be in the same position as the you in about five years time. The only difference is that we have only just bought our first house.

Much to the annoyance of a certain earlier poster, we too will be considering keeping our house here for much the same reasons as the you.

The questions going through my head at the moment (I'm not normally this well organised) are many and varied and until we get nearer to the day, or get a crystal ball as a present, I'm not sure we're in a position to guess what me may or may not be able to achieve when the time comes.

Basically, you have to be looking to maximise the return on your money to provide you and your family with a secure future. An obvious point, but one that could be easily clouded in your circumstances. To keep the house when you emigrate means that you have a slightly simpler return journey if things don't work out for you, and that's very attractive. But, is keeping the house an as attractive option if you don't return?

What I'm trying to say is that people take a lot of comfort from bricks and mortar (and why not) and your circumstances this feeling might be heightened further and blind you from the possibilty of a better return in another form of investment.

If you are buying property in your new home country then maybe it would be better to diversify your assets into another area.

I already feel like I'm going mad trying to work out the best scenario for us in 5 years time, but good luck...

lynzpower

Incidentally, if theres any chance that you will be returning to the UK, do be aware that you should pay national insurance contributions, so that if the worst happens you will still be entitled to state services on your return.

pigeonpie

We left in 1996 and sold our house which was tatty, needed rewiring etc and we thought would be a nightmare to manage from abroad. Things did not work out abroad & we came back & only OH has a FT job. Our old house is now worth 4 times more and we are renting as we got off the property ladder & you know the rest. We could not afford even remotely to buy back the same house. Either keep the house and do it up to conform to necessary rental standards (don't electrocute your tenants!) or buy something that you would be happy to live in if you return.
I speak from bitter experience. Plus if it does work out for you abroad, you can always sell it later on.

driver8_2

Thanks everyone for your replies. Apologies for the late response. It's been a busy weekend.

We've been round to look at some properties and done some more research to get our heads round this one. We're now coming to the conclusion of the majority here that it REALLY is going to be a big hassle to keep a property in the UK.

lynzpower - you've listed some very genuine concerns, many of which we were hoping the management company would handle for us. But maybe this was just wishful thinking, being able to find someone good enough to absorb all this trouble (thanks lush walrus). With interest rates being fairly attractive for savers, we've done some sums and are quite pleasantly surprised at just how much interest will be generated even in a no-risk investment account. And as for the NI contributions, we're thinking there is only a very slim chance of us returning ... and who knows what the state of the state pension will be in 30 years' time !

lush walrus - we are already looking at a modest investment in the country we want to move to. This property dilemma is mainly to resolve the potential obstacle of never getting back on the property ladder in the UK, if we ever needed to.

pawpurrs - that's an interesting statistic - do 50% of people who emigrate really come back?! I guess we have an advantage in that we are moving to be with family and friends, so more of an incentive to make a success of it.

aderbyshirelad - I think you're right about taking comfort in bricks and mortar. With such a seemingly volatile investment market, we were thinking this would be the safest option to keep us on the property ladder. Because we don't have any BTL experience whatsoever, it really looks like it would be too much of a headache to keep a property here when we are starting out in our new lives. Good luck with your future decisions... 5 years will soon fly by !

pigeonpie - thanks for sharing your experiences with us, and sorry to hear it didn't work out. As already mentioned, we are going to join family and friends and are really hoping things will go to plan. We have been considering all this for the last five years so the hassle of buying another property would probably delay us for another 5 years !

Once again, thanks everyone. You've been a great help. Maybe we will see some of you in the savers forum !

d8