Avoiding Care Home Costs

poppy-glos

i read to post twenty and ran out of steam (tired eyes tonight), as someone who works in an adult care team here is my bit;

CRAG (charging regulations accomodation guide) sets out the financial conditions for where the local authority will assist with funding care. If you have given away money to avoid paying care charges, this can be treated as 'deprivation of assets' and you can be charged as if you still had the money.

Currently social services is experiencing financial hardship due to gov't schemes which gave extra being cancelled, and due to reductions of income due to the recession, so only people who are really very in need are getting funded, the local authority will seek cheaper home based support for people as this is better value for money.

Having your own cash gives you a choice of more homes, and when you go into a home if that is what you choose. Also where homes charge more than the amount the local authority is willing to pay, people may be moved to cheaper homes to get 'better value for money' where the local authority is funding, this needs to be considered where someone is going to run out of money and ask the local authority for help, as it may be better to choose a good cheaper home so the person will not have to move later.

If you have Continuing Healthcare Needs, which is assessed by the health authority, your care home funding or domicillary care funding is met in full by the health authority.

Paying taxes for your support in the future is not what happens, we are paying tax to support the people who need it now. With an ageing population and the prediction of more people having care needs in the future, the amount of money per head of the population will go down rather than up. This is why the govt have been discussing having a retiring tax of £19,000 to pay towards any care needs you have after retiring.

Attendence Allowance is a non means tested benefit that people in need of help with their daily needs can claim, and if people are self funding in nursing or residential homes they can continue to claim this benefit to pay towards their care fees.

hope this helps someone

poppy

mountainofdebt

When my Nan died, my Mum and Aunt benefited from their inheritance, which had been saved up just in case of a rainy day.

Unfortunately my Nan never realised when it had started to rain and depsite attempts to get her to do it, refused to make the last few months more comfortable FOR HER than she could have, had she spent some of her savings.

As to whether its right that someone who has worked all their lives gets help and someone who has spent all their money as soon as they get it, well that's what comes of having a welfare system.

woody01

rpc wrote: »

Conversely, why should someone who has earned the same as the OP's parents but spent it all rather than saved get their care paid for by the taxpayer? I have no issue with people who could never have afforded it, like your example, getting free care. But charging the savers while giving the spenders a free ride isn't right either.

Care that is medically required is, as I understand it, always free. So what remains is "voluntary" care. If it's voluntary then perhaps we should either charge everybody or charge nobody.

I'm not sure there is an obviously easy answer to the care home problem. I doubt we'll ever see it, but I'd like to see a system that provides a very basic (but satisfactory) level of free care for everyone and lets those that can afford it pay for better care. It's then the choice of the individual whether to spend their savings or pass them on. I don't see care homes as all that different to a number of NHS services so why not make them free at the point of use too?

Sorry but that argument is completely flawed.
This unfortunately isn't about the OP's mother.
This is about the OP trying to keep her money, so the argument above isn't relevant.

woody01

peachyprice wrote: »

Simplistic maybe, but that doesn't sound like a person with dementia to me, OP has clearly stated that his mother is worried about losing her home to pay for care she might need in the future leaving nothing for her children. He/she hasn't hinted in the slightest that his mother dementia, so it's pretty safe to assume she hasn't.

Reading between the lines, i don't think it is the OP's mother that is the worried one.

I think they need to work out what is best for their mother rather than for themselves. (and yes.....i have been in their position.....over the last 4 months actually)

Bubby wrote: »

And what about those who don't bother to work and save for their care homes who pays for them?:mad:

No tought whatsoever went into your post did it!
Has it ever occurred to you that no everyone in the world can actually afford to buy a house?
You think everyone that doesn't work, just can't be bothered.

It must be a VERY sheltered place in your world.

pukkamum

Exactly woody my DH works very hard but we cannot afford a house, my mum has just retired and due to my dad leaving her when we were very young she has had to work very hard to kepp a roof over our head and a small amount of money in the bank for her retirement.
My sisters and i are trying to persuade her to sell the house and actually enjoy life and see something for all her hard work, something she's not had much chance to do due to the above, but she continues to say but the house is for you girls.
I have told her time and agin we are adults and it is up to us to buy our own houses and none of us rely or count on getting money from her.
The fact is that these days with people living much longer there is not the need for houses to be left to the next generation for them to live in as most of us, hopefully , will be middle aged before our parents die anyway.

Yet i still know people who 'rely' on the inheritance from their parents. I have friends living well above their means who have said it's ok as **** mum and dad will be leaving us loads in their will.
Well now **** dad has alzheimers and if mum needs nursing care too bye bye money!!!!!

monkeyspanner

Sorry if I am repeating any points already made as I haven't read all the thread.

All care home residents contribute towards their care unless they are receiving NHS funded continuing healthcare (CHC). This is because all income including state pension is assessed as a financial contribution towards care (other than a small weekly income allowance of about £20). So to some degree the vast majority pay something towards their care.

Councils assist with funding where a persons savings are below the lower savings limit of about £23000. This funding assistance is set at one of 3 or 4 standard funding levels in any particular council area. If the care home is willing to accept this standard funding level then there is no extra to pay. If the care home wants more fees then a 3rd party top-up payment is required. The resident officially cannot pay this top-up so relatives/friends have to find the difference.

There is a very real injustice for many "self-funders" as their fees are very often substantially more than the council pay for the same services in the same home so "self funders" are subsidising council supported residents.

There is no need to have a "fire sale" of the house in order to fund care as the councils have two schemes in place. The first is a 12week disregard where if a house is on the market then its value is disregarded from any financial assessment for the first 12 weeks of residence in a care home. The second is "deferrment" where the council funds the care until such time as the house is sold and a charge is put against the value of the home. The advantage of this is that the council do not charge interest and if the housing market is rising the value of the house can increase whilst fees are accrued. There is also the opportunity to rent the house during this period.

The NHS CHC scheme is in place for those care home residents whose primary need is medical. The problem here is where the boundary is set, which illnesses are considered and the postcode lottery of the schemes application across different PCTs. Social services do their very best to keep people in their own homes so by the time most people enter a care home I believe there is a pressing arguement that most care home residents needs are primarily medical otherwise they would not need care. The all or nothing nature of the CHC system sets up a conflict between the NHS and the resident and their family. I think it is probably inevitable that the domestic element of this care will have to be funded by the resident, and in a strange way this might lead to a better assessment system and outcome.

Because of the very low standard funding levels set by the councils I personally would not want to be a resident in many of these homes. I would far rather be a "self-funder" and have some choice in the standard of care home. I say I but the likelyhood is that my relatives will be left with that decision.

My advice would be enjoy your financial resources and as long as you have raised your children to be self reliant then any money left over will be a bonus rather than an expectation.