Daughters Car Accident.

Spitakimus14

Hi
sorry this is a long post

My daughter (age 19) had a car accident on 20/10/2009
she was on a roundabout when a car entered the roundabout on the wrong lane and drove into her.
A witness stopped and gave his contact details
Straight after reporting the accident to NIG (Broker is Adrian Flux) she was contacted by Angel assist and another company called Help Hire
A hire car was delivered the net day and she was continually asked if she had any aches or pains or whiplash (also told that she could claim money for any injuries and they were worth £1200 plus)
Anyway after the engineer came and said the car was beyond economical repair and would be valued at £900 (p reg saxo) we bought her a new car .
As soon as the new car was picked up we phoned to send the hire car back (5 days i think) we were continually asked if we were sure and did we want to keep the car incase ....
Eventually they agreed to pick the car up next day :j
So the long plod began she was regularly contacted asking if she needed to make a injury claim (worth £1200 plus) which she refused as she was ok .
Now the underwrite (apparantley ) say its a 50 50 claim as she was a young driver with no witness.
We pointed out she had and gave the details again.
Now this has happened 3 times and we contacted the witness and asked him why he hadnt replied and could he reply now.
He showed us copies of previous replies and confirmed they had been sent.
I telephoned the insurance company and told them this asked if we could now dispose of the vehicle and asked to see a copy of the other drivers statement, pretty much got a no with a feeble promise of trying to get a statement (which they hadnt seen ???)
We have since phoned the insurance company again and they are saying that the underwriters were the ones responsible for the 50 50 idea and that having a witness was in our favour but it could take time.

Now i may be cynical but is the claim too small re injury and car hire to motivate anyone so a handshake and 50 50 settlement is easier.

So currently my daughters lost a car and 2 years ncb (very important at her age)

so what can i do ?????????

sorry said it was a long post

adamc260

50/50? Your daughter was proceeding around a roundabout and someone failed to giveway and joined the roundabout.... seems fairly clear cut to me! Also ask them did they ever speak to the witness or chase him/her up. Also ask for the third parties allegations of the accident.

chris1973

Unfortunately, its far easier for insurance companies to just roll over and go 50/50 and share the blame and liabilities rather than spend months or even years fighting it out between them - which can prove very expensive for them both. I had a similar situation in 2006 when I was hit head on by a driver overtaking and on my side of the road at the time of impact, that was a 50/50 settlement too, even though it was 100% fault of the other party, but I had no witnesses.

Chances are they've decided that the cost of the claim is cheaper than the cost of spending years arguing about it, and so both insurers will settle and penalise their clients with equal loss of NCB. It probably would be a different story if your Daughter was driving a £60k Bentley - the ins co would be keen to fight back the repair / replacement cost of that from the other insurer.

I know what you mean, I lost 2 years of an otherwise full no claims too, and through no fault of my own, just because the insurance co was too lazy to fight it

Were the Police called and did they attend?. I'm sad to say that given my previous experience in the claim I referred to above, that if I was ever in the same situation, I would call and DEMAND Police attendance if only to get an accurate statement of events and any liability apportioned as to the cause and then it would be independently held on record and could be used in order to protect my own insurance interests.

Does your Daughter have any legal protection on any insurance policy?, either on this or on another policy perhaps?. If so then i'd be tempted to get a written statement from the witness and then engage the services of a specialist accident claim advisor and claim back the cost from the other party's insurer.

adamc260

I can't understand why they're disputing something so simple, the third party failed to give way, not sure how they can really wriggle out of that! If that were one of my claims I'd pursue it...

chris1973

I can't understand why they're disputing something so simple

Its a simple fact of money. Obviously the other parties insurance company are denying liability otherwise it would be all settled and the costs would have been paid out by the other insurer. If the other driver and their insurers were to simply admit liability for the accident then it would be cut and dried and settled and the OP wouldn't be posting this.

So its a common insurance stalemate - the OP's Daughters insurer is denying liability and the third party insurers are denying liability - where can it progress? - as without the independent witness version of events all it is is one persons word against that of another.

Unfortunately the £900 to replace the policyholders car, is probably a lot less than it would cost the insurance company, to chase up witnesses, take photographs of the road and general area, produce photos of the damage to both cars (if they still exist) and engage the professional services of accident investigators to weigh up the facts presented and to take the matter to independent arbitration.

If they were replacing an expensive car, then it would be worth the cost to defend a 50/50 claim, however that £900 pay out would be significantly less than two insurance companies blundering around for 12 - 18 months going around in circles and endlessly arguing as to which party was at fault, even if it was 'obvious' they still have to prove it, at the moment its one persons word against another, at least until the time that the witness is produced, and their statement presented to the other insurer - something which doesn't seem to have been done. Once the other insurer knows that there is a witness, their attitude may change and they'll probably pay out.

This doesnt seem to have happened, and its vital that the policyholder gets a copy of this witness account ASAP, as its their only hope.

Remember - 'common sense', 'obvious' and 'simple' are not words in an insurance vocabulary. Above all its a case of mitigating losses and insurance companies will wriggle like slugs in salt in order to reduce their liabilities and will always take the path of least resistance.

Spitakimus14

hi and thanks

i agree that they cant be bothered but as my daughter is only third party she has los the car the ncb and has to declare the accident so premiums are increased.
As for the witness he has replied when contacted by the insurance company we saw him post the last one and even sent a copy .
They just seem to want to wash there hands:(

chris1973

Then I think you need to contact your (Daughters) insurance company, tell them that you have a copy of of the witness account in your possession and believe it proves that there is no 50/50 liability and that the fault was entirely that of the other party. Tell them that you are not happy with the outcome and 50/50 settlement and that you are disputing the loss of your daughters NCB. Tell them that you wish to raise a complaint under their internal complaints policy, and that you want details of what the procedure is, and who will be dealing with it. If the matter is still not resolved to your statisfaction, then you will refer the matter to the FOS

Send this letter to the Head of Customer Services Deptmartment, along with a copy of your witness account. Ideally by recorded delivery - or if its a PO box, keep a proof of postage receipt.

Irony

Would the insurers take more interest if she decided to take other party to small claims(like to know as in simular situ.)

chris1973

i'd try the complaints procedure and be prepared to contact the FOS if they don't come back with a more favourable offer. If you have a witness statement, naming the third party as entirely to blame for the accident, then you certainly have a legitmate grounds for complaint as it seems that the insurance company are not acting in your best interests - more like the interests which are best for THEM.

I've heard that 50/50 settlements are usually the course of action where no independant witnesses are available and no police report and so it remains one persons word against another - if one party won't admit liability then they settle "knock for knock" or 50/50. I think 50/50 is also used when no lane markings are evident as on narrow country lanes, as it would be difficult to prove who crossed the centre line, if non exists.

With a witness report present, I think the insurance company are just trying it on, probably based on the age of the insured, the cover (3rd party) and the value of the vehicle. Write to them, with a copy of the witness report and lodge an official complaint under their own customer complaints procedure in relation to how badly this has been handled and state clearly that 50/50 is not acceptable. Keep copies of all correspondence as you will need to produce it if you take it further with the FOS

adamc260

I'd be asking for a description and diagram from the third parties insurer... asking for what the damage was to their vehicle, there's also a witness statement (presumably independent). Who is the third party insurer first of all? I wouldn't be accepting 50/50 for this type of accident not from the circumstances.

Irony

Wholly agree with adam.Daughter's insurer will send TP diagram/report & send her's to them(TP) Don't be suprised(like me) if they claim she was undertaking.