Funeral costs

Ladywriter1968

davidbaa68 wrote: »

Hello,

I am an independent funeral director. You say that the funeral director wants £600 per month. How much is the invoice?

It is very unusual for a council to accept responsibility for funeral costs even if the person who has passed away is a resident of a social services care home, and if they did you would have not been involved in making the funeral arrangements as they would have been carried out on a contract basis with a nominated funeral director.

If I was accepting a funeral on the basis of what you proposed I would have made sure that the council were paying the bill before I took the funeral on so this begs the question why did the funeral director take on the funeral without confirming that?

Also a responsible funeral director should ensure that the family can afford the funeral package that they provide for a family.

As the previous poster mentioned if there was any value in the estate that would pay the funeral account first.

Are you receiving any benefits? Is so you would have been able to claim for a funeral payment at the time of the funeral, however you have to have submitted a claim within 3 months of the death occurring. The funeral payment consists of £700 towards the funeral directors charges plus the cremation fee and doctors fees for cremation or the burial fee for burial. If you didn't claim and you feel you were mis-advised you may be able to appeal to the Benefits Agency.

Again as the previous poster implied the person who signed for the funeral arrangements is responsible for the costs if there isn't any value in the estate.

I hope this helps.

David.

They say family are responsible, once they sign the dotted line etc, but what if the family simply refuse to be responsible or sign.

What happens then?
Who then takes over?
I mean, they cant make a family be responsible can they or pay?
Say for eg the family are estranged from person?

I am just curious to know what happens then really?

AsknAnswer2

Just did a big speil about court. Edited now as I see the OP hasn't been around since May and thus has probably either sorted out her problem or has been to court.

In regard to the funeral payment: The prescribed time limit for claiming a funeral payment from the social fund is not three months from the date of death. It's three months from the date of the funeral. Being in receipt of benefit (which must be a qualifying benefit) is not enough in itself to satisfy entitlement for a funeral payment. There are 6 conditions of entitlement, including the supplementary conditions.

A funeral payment can award more than the cremation fees/dr's fees/removal of medical device(s), burial plot and interment fees. Aside from the necessery costs of burial/cremation, costs can be met for travelling expenses for the responsible person and one other person, necessery costs of transporting the deceased in excess of 80km, and costs for documentation, production of which is necessary in order to release any assets of the deceased which may be deducted from a funeral payment pursuant to the applicable legisaltion. After these costs a maximum of £700 can be paid toward other funeral expenses (not necesserily funeral directors expenses), or a maximum of £120 where there is a pre-paid funeral plan. From the costs considered for award, deductions can be made for money which is available or due to pay toward the funeral. If the sum of deductions exceeds the sum which can be considered for award, there is no entitlement.

SI 3061/2005


In respect of the responsibility of the local authority, this is covered in section 46 of the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984, which states:

Disposal of Dead Bodies

46 Burial and cremation

(1)It shall be the duty of a local authority to cause to be buried or cremated the body of any person who has died or been found dead in their area, in any case where it appears to the authority that not suitable arrangements for the disposal of the body have been or are being made otherwise than by the authority.
(2)Any council which is the local authority for the purposes of the Local Authority Social Services Act 1970 may cause to be buried or cremated the body of any deceased person who immediately before his death was being provided with accommodation under Part III of the National Assistance Act 1948 by, or by arrangement with, the council or was living in a hostel provided by the council under section 29 of that Act.
(3)An authority shall not cause a body to be cremated under subsection (1) or (2) above where they have reason to believe that cremation would be contrary to the wishes of the deceased.
(4)Subsections (1) and (2) above do not affect any enactment regulating or authorising the burial, cremation or anatomical examination of the body of a deceased person.
(5)An authority may recover from the estate of the deceased person or from any person who for the purposes of the National Assistance Act 1948 was liable to maintain the deceased person immediately before his death expenses incurred under subsection (1) or subsection (2) above, . . ..
(6)Without prejudice to any other method of recovery, a sum due to an authority under subsection (5) above is recoverable summarily as a civil debt by proceedings brought within three years after the sum becomes due.
(7)The Secretary of State may cause such inquiries to be held as he may deem necessary or desirable for the purposes of this section.
(8)The Secretary of State may by order made by statutory instrument direct that this section, in its application to the Isles of Scilly, shall have effect subject to exceptions, adaptations and modifications.

CLAPTON

In simple terms

the situation is that you simply refuse to deal with the dead body and the state will do it for you

however if you have already signed something then it's your debt

Ladywriter1968

AsknAnswer2 wrote: »

Just did a big speil about court. Edited now as I see the OP hasn't been around since May and thus has probably either sorted out her problem or has been to court.

In regard to the funeral payment: The prescribed time limit for claiming a funeral payment from the social fund is not three months from the date of death. It's three months from the date of the funeral. Being in receipt of benefit (which must be a qualifying benefit) is not enough in itself to satisfy entitlement for a funeral payment. There are 6 conditions of entitlement, including the supplementary conditions.

A funeral payment can award more than the cremation fees/dr's fees/removal of medical device(s), burial plot and interment fees. Aside from the necessery costs of burial/cremation, costs can be met for travelling expenses for the responsible person and one other person, necessery costs of transporting the deceased in excess of 80km, and costs for documentation, production of which is necessary in order to release any assets of the deceased which may be deducted from a funeral payment pursuant to the applicable legisaltion. After these costs a maximum of £700 can be paid toward other funeral expenses (not necesserily funeral directors expenses), or a maximum of £120 where there is a pre-paid funeral plan. From the costs considered for award, deductions can be made for money which is available or due to pay toward the funeral. If the sum of deductions exceeds the sum which can be considered for award, there is no entitlement.

SI 3061/2005


In respect of the responsibility of the local authority, this is covered in section 46 of the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984, which states:

Question about this part? I have copy pasted over.

working tax credit where the disability element or the severe disability element of working tax credit as specified in regulation 20(1)(b) and (f) of the Working Tax Credit (Entitlement and Maximum Rate) Regulations 2002 is included in the award.

Ok, we get working tax credits but its the normal tax credits and its not for disability element or severe disability element.

Does this mean that tax credits would not help us out then towards funeral expenses for a parent?

AsknAnswer2

Tax credit don't provide the help; the Social Fund does (for the funeral payment) Two of qualifying benefits involve tax credit if they have specific elements attached.

Working tax credit alone is not a qualifying benefit, no. There needs to be an attached disability element to the working tax credit for it to count as a qualifying benefit. If the person who claims the funeral payment (or their partner) is not receiving a qualifying benefit, the first condition of entitlement is not satisfied therefore they will not be able to help toward the cost.

You need to be receiving a qualifying benefit at the time your claim is submitted to the Social Fund.

Note: the Social Fund is part of the Department for Work and Pensions (falls within jobcentreplus).
This is the application form here

If no-one is prepared to take responsibility for the funeral, and simply walks away, then Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 means that the local authority would arrange for disposal of the body (for want of a better expression).

The law is frequently misunderstood, particularly where someone estranged dies. It's not unknown for police to trace any surviving kin to advise of the death, upon which the surviving kin are often quickly convinced (whether by the police, morgue staff, LA, hospital or other) than they are legally responsible (particularly if they are the only surviving kin). Long story short, they're not.

What the local authority can do, is enforce the cost to be met by the estate of the deceased if there is an estate. The first thing which must be paid from the estate of the deceased person is the funeral expenses so the local authority always have first call on the estate to fund the expenses of disposal if they have taken responsibility.

Ladywriter1968

AsknAnswer2 wrote: »

Tax credit don't provide the help; the Social Fund does (for the funeral payment) Two of qualifying benefits involve tax credit if they have specific elements attached.

Working tax credit alone is not a qualifying benefit, no. There needs to be an attached disability element to the working tax credit for it to count as a qualifying benefit. If the person who claims the funeral payment (or their partner) is not receiving a qualifying benefit, the first condition of entitlement is not satisfied therefore they will not be able to help toward the cost.

You need to be receiving a qualifying benefit at the time your claim is submitted to the Social Fund.

Note: the Social Fund is part of the Department for Work and Pensions (falls within jobcentreplus).
This is the application form here

If no-one is prepared to take responsibility for the funeral, and simply walks away, then Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984 means that the local authority would arrange for disposal of the body (for want of a better expression).

The law is frequently misunderstood, particularly where someone estranged dies. It's not unknown for police to trace any surviving kin to advise of the death, upon which the surviving kin are often quickly convinced (whether by the police, morgue staff, LA, hospital or other) than they are legally responsible (particularly if they are the only surviving kin). Long story short, they're not.

What the local authority can do, is enforce the cost to be met by the estate of the deceased if there is an estate. The first thing which must be paid from the estate of the deceased person is the funeral expenses so the local authority always have first call on the estate to fund the expenses of disposal if they have taken responsibility.

Thanks this info is very useful.

OK, what is the person in question is in a care home and has no money or assets and no estate.

They previously lived in a council property and then went to the care home with dementia. The surviving relative is poor and just about managing to keep head above water so to speak and keep roof over head.

So you are saying they can actually force that relative by law to pay even if it means making the kin even more poorer and putting the kin in jeopardy themselves with more debt?

Even if the police search distant relatives that they can force them to pay for it as well by law?

Even if the person left has no other family to help and has a low paid job plus debts of their own?

What if the person has one child who is next of kin, but they also have a brother as well? The brother has money and the direct kin does not, but the brother of the person who died refuses to pay. Does that mean the child has to pay then?

Is this correct?

Just wanted to clarify this?

Sorry for the questions. Just wanted to know really.

thanks for advice.

AsknAnswer2

No, what I am saying is that people are often talked into believing that they must by law take responsibility for funeral expenses when they are the only or next surviving kin. There is no such law. The only way you can be forced to take responsibility for funeral expenses is if you arrange the funeral, enter into a contract to pay funeral expenses.

If nobody is going to arrange the funeral, and nobody is going to pay for it the law states that the local authority (council) have to take responsibility to dispose of the remains.

If the person who died had any estate, the local authority can recover the costs of disposal from the estate.

So if for example, I was estranged from my parent and they died, but I refused to have anything to do with funeral arrangements, the council would have to arrange for disposal of the body. If my parent had left an estate, the council could recover their costs from that.