Real life MMD: Do I punish the cleaner?

meher

Saetana wrote: »

Here we go again! I could not afford to replace £200 worth of toiletries/makeup/perfume whatever as I am on a low income and buy these things one at a time or get them as gifts. Why are you assuming the OP can afford to take a £200 hit? Why are you so sure that the maid is on a terrible wage and even if she is she may well be a thief!

The more I think about this the more I think this is a scam, either the cleaner is a thief because you are not telling me that anyone's toiletry bag (whether £20 or £200) is so light it can be mistaken as rubbish or she is badly trained and/or stupid! The manager is trying to shame the OP into not making a claim in my opinion. This sounds more than a little dubious, was there no attempt made to recover the bag? All things considered, I would want my money back. What kind of customer service would we get if we put up with being ripped off all the time?

I admit that was a poor argument put foward because I'm well aware we're exploring the principle and not merely the material value of it; but that said we are forming arguments based on the premise of our own thoughts and even measuring others by our own standards. I just don't wish to entertian this assumption that she is a thief and instead find that it was a genuine mistake - that she found a messy bag and just stuck it into the bin. That it is personal property which she shouldn't have touched or made any attempt to clear it out of the way, is something she should have been trained to do. If she were trained she wouldn't have dared to trot out that excuse. And yet that was her explanation, which makes me believe that it was a genuine mistake - a case that she acted totally inappropriately. And no I wouldn't want to pinch a share out of someone's wages simply because they were stupid in a one off incident.

And just to clarify I never made a link about wage and petty theft; you're creating an argument out of my post to make your point with which I can't help. The link, if any that I made was that if material goods were worth someone's reputation, pinching their wages simply to give rest to our suspicious minds; if I'd want to punish someone for the sake of a toiletry bag and I'm very clear that I wouldn't unless I've proof that she stole. If I'd proof then there would be no dilemma - it would be reported and would leave it with the hotel to deal definitely with their staff and possibly with my loss. If I'm honest, I wouldn't be bothered about chasing my loss. I always set aside an x amount of loss and anticipate y number of risks when I set out to travel and don't look back for instances to torture someone else or myself for no reason. If something nags me I'd leave a feedback and forget about it.

swallow_tattoo

Think of all the time's we've made mistakes or done things we regret, and have been thanking out lucky stars we got away with it!
You have the opportunity to do the same for your hapless cleaner.
OK, it's disappointing that you lost your toiletries, but the cost of replacing them is likely to mean a lot more to a Turkish cleaner than it is to you.
At the end of the day, you were in the lucky position of having a nice sunshine break, whereas this young woman is unlikely (if working as a hotel maid) to enjoy the same opportunities.
Sounds like she already knows of her mistake so is likely to do the same thing again, so I would just move on...

neilpost

I think the whole thread has started off on the wrong foot.

The MMD OP's thread title is 'How do I punish the cleaner' - bit harsh for what in all realilty is likely to have been a mistake as the most likely situation.

1. £200 of toiletries on holiday, excludes the OP from any moral high ground. Not a true Moneysaver :rotfl:
2. Why were the toiletries still in the plastic bag ? You only wrap them for your cases. Does not make sense
3. Where was the plastic bag - floor, by the bathroom sink, under the bed - no details on perhaps why it was viewed as rubish
4. £200 of toiletries is only what was paid for them retail and new. Likely to be able to replace for much less in Bodycare/The Perfume Shop/Wilkinsons/Internet, or indeed DUTY FREE on the way out of Istanbul.
5. There is an underlying view (not the OP's) that people in Housekeeping have 'sticky fingers' - this is not the case, as the risk/reward is pretty poor - Very little gain from on-selling stolen goods, to make risking your job/jail - in this case for a few Turkish Lire.
6. Hotel Managers attutude is poor - is it owned, or managed, by a recognised international chain or holiday company - they might be fairer

Solution :money:

Perhaps the middle ground is a claim on the Individuals Holiday insurance, and the excess is split between hotel, cleaner and OP - likely to be around £50-60, so £20 each is equitable as all seem with the info supplied to be at some fault - lack of care with property, lack of clear instructiuons on what to clean and what not too etc.

OP - £200 of toiletries, shame on you :eek:

neilpost

Saetana wrote: »

What I do wish to mention though is the number of people who have had a dig about the bag and contents being worth £200! That was not the question and is no business of anyone else. The questioner was asking for advice about what to do, not inviting inverted snobbery about how much they spend on toiletries. Like many others on here my bag would probably be worth no more than £20 (my make-up bag would be worth rather more though and maybe this bag had some make-up in in or perfume which is generally expensive) but I don't feel it gives me the right to have a sly dig at the OP. Like Martin says at the top, please remember this is a real person who will be reading this posts and be nice people!

Yet the Thread title is "How do I punish the cleaner".

Not very nicel!, esp. when the OP has some culpability (from the scanty info suopplied). The (almost exclusively female) cleaner may well be supporting a familiy, and £200 docked from wages may financially wipe them out for months.

They need to make an insurance claim, and get over themselves with the posh toiletries.

neilpost

Katie-Kat-Kins wrote: »

I'm really struggling to believe that so many people have toiletry bags that only contain £20 worth of stuff. Seriously add up the costs of all of the stuff you might take (and lots of people take their usual stuff and don't buy separate small holiday size versions) I bet it comes to much more even if you don't buy expensive brands

Shampoo
Conditioner
Shower gel
Soap
Cleanser
Toner
Eye Cream
Day Cream
Night cream
Sun cream
Aftersun
perfume
toothbrush (possibly electric)
Toothpaste
facial wipes
foundation
powder
concealer
eyeshadow
eyeliner
mascara
lipstick (most likely at least two)
Hair serum/mousse/or whatever
Lip balm

Even at superdrug own brand/Avon prices I make that £100. Add in a bottle of designer perfume maybe a few extras or more expensive brands and you are up to £200, plus there is the cost of the actual sponge bag which if it is a nice one could be a fair bit. Lots of people have more expensive items as a gift too.

You would need a small suitcase for all this stuff

Again, why it was still in a 'plastic bag', and of unspecified location in the room has not been stated. When you un-pack, you put all your toiletries in/around the sink in the hotel room bathroom.

--

Turkish are not all out to rip us off. Pehaps some shop owners, and certainly the catering franchises airside on the way out, but much is excellent value for money and there are loads of honest Turkish. We mislaid a £200 camera, handed into lost property, no problems. A TUI/First Choice managed hotel in Dalaman.

poet123

I think the point is that everyone is entitled to spend their disposable income as they choose. Also, being moneysaving means getting the best value for the items you wish to buy, not buying the cheapest items. Forums such as OS are in the minority, most of the forums are about getting xyz for a the best available price, not about being frugal.

It is interesting how many newish posters are on this thread maybe the MSE concept has not yet become apparent. However, I digress!

I agree for most chambermaids honesty is not an issue, it is simply not worth it, it becomes so when the hotel managment turn a blind eye or are in cahoots though, and for all we know this could be the case here. We have never had an issue in a hotel room and we are well travelled, but if we did I would go on gut feeling. Was it an honest mistake? or part of a bigger scam?

Essex123

I agree that gut feeling is important. We were staying in the south of France once, when we hadn't travelled as much as we have now.

We went to breakfast, and my girlfriend soon needed to pop back to the room. When she went into the room, the cleaner was there and seemed to jump. We thought nothing more of it. Then, on the last day of our holiday, we were looking how much money we had left and it became clear some of my girlfriends money had gone walkies (from her handbag). It suddenly became clear why the cleaner had been jumpy that day. Luckily we mainly use plastic abroad and only carry small amounts of cash.

What did we do about this? Well actually, we did nothing. I think it was about EUR40 that was stolen, and given it was the last day of our holiday we didn't want to waste it with the police or talking to the hotel management. We put the whole thing down to experience. We did send the hotel an email though once we got home so at least the event was brought to their attention.

What would I do if the same happened again? Well we're much more careful now - my girlfriend always takes her handbag with her when we go to breakfast! Whilst 99% of hotel staff are honest, you're always going to attract opportunists.

neilpost

poet123 wrote: »

I think the point is that everyone is entitled to spend their disposable income as they choose. Also, being moneysaving means getting the best value for the items you wish to buy, not buying the cheapest items. Forums such as OS are in the minority, most of the forums are about getting xyz for a the best available price, not about being frugal.

It is interesting how many newish posters are on this thread maybe the MSE concept has not yet become apparent. However, I digress!

I agree for most chambermaids honesty is not an issue, it is simply not worth it, it becomes so when the hotel managment turn a blind eye or are in cahoots though, and for all we know this could be the case here. We have never had an issue in a hotel room and we are well travelled, but if we did I would go on gut feeling. Was it an honest mistake? or part of a bigger scam?

No one said MSE is about buying the absolute cheapest stuff you can get - you are missing what people are saying.

Also, implying that newish posters are fcukwits is offensive, and does little to enhance your arguments :rotfl:

What a signigficant number have observed is that a £200 bag of toiletries seems a bit extravagant, esp. for something to be taken on holiday to a hot place like Istanbul. Whether £200 of toiletries/cosmetics is good value for money is not the subject of this thread.

''Hotel management turning a blind eye/are in cahoots' - there is simple nothing to substantiate this wild accusation. Turkey may not be subject to UK Law standards of 'beyond reasonable doubt', but it is subject to common sense, which seems to be escaping you.

neilpost

Essex123 wrote: »

I agree that gut feeling is important. We were staying in the south of France once, when we hadn't travelled as much as we have now.

We went to breakfast, and my girlfriend soon needed to pop back to the room. When she went into the room, the cleaner was there and seemed to jump. We thought nothing more of it. Then, on the last day of our holiday, we were looking how much money we had left and it became clear some of my girlfriends money had gone walkies (from her handbag). It suddenly became clear why the cleaner had been jumpy that day. Luckily we mainly use plastic abroad and only carry small amounts of cash.

What did we do about this? Well actually, we did nothing. I think it was about EUR40 that was stolen, and given it was the last day of our holiday we didn't want to waste it with the police or talking to the hotel management. We put the whole thing down to experience. We did send the hotel an email though once we got home so at least the event was brought to their attention.

What would I do if the same happened again? Well we're much more careful now - my girlfriend always takes her handbag with her when we go to breakfast! Whilst 99% of hotel staff are honest, you're always going to attract opportunists.

I have sympathies over the missing money, but outside of the home you need to use a good dose of common sense and take some personal responsibility/accountability for your own wellbeing, your companions and your stuff.

poet123

neilpost wrote: »

No one said MSE is about buying the absolute cheapest stuff you can get - you are missing what people are saying.

Also, implying that newish posters are fcukwits is offensive, and does little to enhance your arguments :rotfl:

What a signigficant number have observed is that a £200 bag of toiletries seems a bit extravagant, esp. for something to be taken on holiday to a hot place like Istanbul. Whether £200 of toiletries/cosmetics is good value for money is not the subject of this thread.

''Hotel management turning a blind eye/are in cahoots' - there is simple nothing to substantiate this wild accusation. Turkey may not be subject to UK Law standards of 'beyond reasonable doubt', but it is subject to common sense, which seems to be escaping you.

If you re read my post I was certainly not implying new posters are xxxxx (what a delightful term ) merely that we all have different takes on what is moneysaving, and that if you have not been around here that long you may not realise it. If you do realise it, then you will be aware that your accusation that £200 worth of cosmetics is not moneysaving is baseless.

If you look at the lists people have posted as to what is in their bags you will see that it can easily amount to £200 especially if you keep hair straighteners etc. in there too. Quite what the fact that it is a hot country has to do with it escapes me, if you are on a city break you will want to go out and eat at nice places and so most women take the same make up they use at home. It is not for anyone else to say that xyz is extravagant whilst abc is acceptable, we all have different priorities.

Originally Posted by neilpost
1. £200 of toiletries on holiday, excludes the OP from any moral high ground. Not a true Moneysaver
They need to make an insurance claim, and get over themselves with the posh toiletries.
OP - £200 of toiletries, shame on you :eek:

So, why you felt the need to put the above is not clear to me.

The bottom line is that your belongings should be safe in a hotel room wherever you are in the world.( that aasumption is borne out by the fact that insurance policies cover this) if they are not, then you have redress against the hotel management.

I think that is common sense.

My point re the hotel management was that the manager told the guest what his actions toward the cleaner would be, that was either bad management on his part, or evidenced something else, and that something else could be as described. Speculation is all we have here, and so it is as valid a speculation as any other on this thread, and a lot more valid than some.:D