do you think this is fair or acceptable?

Savvy_Sue

Gingham_Ribbon wrote: »

That's the best way to get your opinion heard. Decisions are made by people who show up.

Absolutely. And these decisions relate to how often you can ask families for money or other donations, how often you run events, what sort of events, what you charge for them, and what you do with the money.

I got to know which stalls made the most money at a summer fair (raffles and tombolas) and which didn't make a lot but were good 'attractions' (bouncy castles). I would happily have 'lost' the bouncy castles, but the team persuaded me that although we didn't make money on them (often a small loss), the kids loved them. I thought it was a bit rich to charge 50p a bounce because that's a lot for large families, some of the team with more children than me thought that was fine. When new people came along dredging up 'old' ideas, I'd say whether or not this had made money in the past, and we'd put it to the vote. We tried new things - a Quiz Night at the local pub for example - and worked out whether the effort involved made it worthwhile (no).

Things I hated I stepped back from - none of mine could stand discos (we did try once!) so I would help with selling tickets in advance, providing a float for the sweets and generally making sure people had what was needed. Then I stayed home with my boys.

That's what having a team is all about, but if no-one new ever turns up it soon becomes the faithful few, whose children leave, and there's no-one to take over. That is sad.

PTA is less commitment than being a parent governor, but another plus of being involved is that the staff DO get to know you, and you can informally say what you think of things.

I don't regret doing it when they were at primary school. Sadly I was all evented out by the time they started at secondary!

meritaten

mishkanorman wrote: »

You have made a lot of very wrong assumptions about PTA's, they are NOT evil, money grabbing, corporate entities they are just people trying to make a change and doing what little they can to improve what they can.


mishka


PS the disco last night was a great success and we raised £150 ish :j

mishkanorman - where did I say they were evil money grabbing corporate entities? I beleive i actually praised them in one post!

congratulations on last nights disco and the £150 ! but I assume this took place out of school hours and attendance was entirely voluntary!
so thanks, I think my point has now been proven - successful fundraising doesnt have to be during school, and excluding those pupils whose parents cannot pay!

Fang_3

meritaten wrote: »

mishkanorman - where did I say they were evil money grabbing corporate entities? I beleive i actually praised them in one post!

congratulations on last nights disco and the £150 ! but I assume this took place out of school hours and attendance was entirely voluntary!
so thanks, I think my point has now been proven - successful fundraising doesnt have to be during school, and excluding those pupils whose parents cannot pay!

Apologies if English isn't your first language, but by Christ - could you lay off the exclamation marks and actually use the CAPS LOCK button once in a while?

And stop moaning about PTAs. If you or your children can't be bothered to get involved in your grandchild's education then frankly you should be thanking those that do volunteer every single day.

msb5262

Fang wrote: »

Apologies if English isn't your first language, but by Christ - could you lay off the exclamation marks and actually use the CAPS LOCK button once in a while?

And stop moaning about PTAs. If you or your children can't be bothered to get involved in your grandchild's education then frankly you should be thanking those that do volunteer every single day.

I was under the impression that forum rules requested, Please be nice to all moneysavers.

Clearly either I was wrong or you can't read.

mishkanorman

meritaten wrote: »

mishkanorman - where did I say they were evil money grabbing corporate entities? I beleive i actually praised them in one post!

congratulations on last nights disco and the £150 ! but I assume this took place out of school hours and attendance was entirely voluntary!
so thanks, I think my point has now been proven - successful fundraising doesnt have to be during school, and excluding those pupils whose parents cannot pay!

er no I dont think your point has been proven, the mufti days are equally entirely voluntary - the contribution will be a request as will the not wearing uniform. If a child arrives without uniform and no tombola prize they will not be excluded from anything.

The Disco was held for fundraising and raised £150 but the committee members ( 8 of us attended ) gave up 4 hours of their time each, not including all the paperwork involved which I spent rougly an hour of my time on per day for the last 3 weeks.

A tombola stall will raise in excess of £400 and involves no paperwork, the parent only has to provide something new that they have in the house - we dont expect anything that has too much value (the odd bottle of wine is always donated though!) and they dont have to purchase any special clothes for the child to come to school in. The effort factor is minimum for a great return, what school wouldnt do them ?

mountainofdebt

In my experience, everyone wants their child to take part in activities that cost money and when you try and organise events to raise money for these very few are either willing to help or support these events, whether it be putting their hand into their pocket or actually attending.

It may have been that the PTA had this bring-a-bottle idea as an alternative to asking for actually hard cash and to raise prizes for the fair.

msb5262

mountainofdebt wrote: »

It may have been that the PTA had this bring-a-bottle idea as an alternative to asking for actually hard cash and to raise prizes for the fair.

Yes - in my experience, this is much easier than asking for money and also fairer. If the PTA or Friends of the School or whatever organisation asks for money, it's rarely under a pound but if you're asked to donate something for the tombola or raffle, it can be anything from a bag of crisps or a Penguin biscuit to a bottle of whisky. In fact tombolas always need lots of the low-value things as children like to play, and they are happy to win crisps or a bar of chocolate or a bottle of pop.

MsB

atrixblue.-MFR-.

i have two children at a local primary in my area,

we rarely get advanced notice on events coming up. yes we get the holiday and assembly timetable but thats about as usefull as a ashtray on a motorbike for events planned.

the primary's PTA is made up of the dinner ladies (who been at the school for years and years)and morning and evening cleaners(whos been there years) a local councellor, head of course and some teachers that live local so can stay on for meetings and a parent or two of the elder children. rarely a chance to get on the PTA comes up!

so farr our primary school has been invovled in so many fund raisers (all in school hours) that required my children to either wear PJ's and a £1. 50p to the school and 50p to charity to do so or if not they have to wear school uniform and be left out of activitie's. (and this is plain and simple in the letter we (me and my partner) get usually the day before the event!)

to do the "PJ party" event, my children are girls so only had nighty's not to leave my children out of the event or EXCLUDED from the event as meritaten put it we had to buy PJ's at late notice being two of them and it being winter we had to buy leggings to go underneath the thin meterial of the pj's just for them to keep warm being on benefits it didnt just cost us £2 for them to be involved in this event it cost around £22.00 2xa pack of leggings 2x pjs.

it may be voluntry but i wouldnt like to see my kids not be involved in a social activity with their friends at school, to be minded in a class room and see their friends have fun. schools should not state that to be involved in such event they must pay! if its voluntry or be left out and have to wear uniform while other are not. its simply unfair to a child to exclude them from such activity's.

recently we had to buy certain clothing for our daughters to be involved in a certain activity this spring again costing us money that we really do not have, while i think it is good to have these activity's i think it would be better if they were fully thought through cost wise! is it right to leave a child out if their parents are skint and have had 24hours notice of such activity!

meritaten mentioned that her GD's primary had outdoor classrooms, i would be concerned as to why (i know education is primary) the school put these down a "must have" item, a jungle gym! !!!!!! is a kid going to learn from one of those, and i bet that injuries in the school has risen because of this jungle gym! what is the need for one! could the money have been better spent on in class upgrades like nursery safety matts better seats tables utilities you have to ask yourself! i would could see an outdoor classroom be beneficial it it were an enclosed space as so no rain or ice etc but if it were an open air classroom then it would be useless in this country probably used 5-6 weeks max out of 12 months! and would be a waste of school finances! and i would have a concern i see meritatens point even if you lot cant, your problem!. she isnt poking at PTE members she simply is stateming that all children should be involved in an activity and not left out because a parent cant pay whatever the reason! better use of school money that has been raised, all children should be treated equally if a school states you child will be left out of an activity because a parent cant contribute then thats not treating a child equally!

Savvy_Sue

Go up to one of the PTA members and say "When's your next meeting, I'd like to get involved" and see what the response is.

Or write a letter to them asking for more notice, copy the head in.

Explain the difficulties you've had.

It may not have occurred to them that parents would go out and buy leggings and pyjamas specially - if I'd had girls with only nighties they would have gone to school in nighties with trousers or leggings underneath. When they went back to school for a bedtime story in pyjamas, my boys had their trousers on over their pyjamas for the walk to school (and were not alone!)

But if no-one tells them, how are they supposed to know anyone's got a problem with it?

LucyLocket

I have absolutely no idea how I got that silly angry face up there or how to get rid of it!

School day trips are not really a problem. Schools can't charge for them, they can only request a vountary contribution. If a parent chooses not to contribute, their child will not be penalised. Their costs will be subsidised from school finances. Where the school becomes unable to subsidise the visits will be unable to go ahead.

In my opinion this removes a cost effective way of offering experiences to children from less wealthy backgrounds. After all a school visit can enable a child to visit places without the parent having to pay to get in as well.

As far as other activities go eg those that fundraise for school or for a charity they are never compulsory. However parents feel uncomfortable about their child possibly being treated differently or even just missing out.

Schools have a responsibilty to keep the financial requests within reasonable bounds so as many people as possible can easily take part. The difficulty arises because 'reasonable' is subjective, varying acording to a family's income and spending priorities. It appears that some posters feel PTA members who arrange more expensive events are more well off than other parents. In some instances that will be the case. In others it may simply be that they are parents who are happy to focus a large proportion of what they have spare on their children's involvement in such events and who are assuming that others think in the same way.

I do think schools have a responsibility to consider the measures they have in place to prevent / minimise the possibility of any child feeling 'left out' For example school book club purchases can be tucked quietly into the pupil's 'trays' or distributed after the class has been dismissed. Parents need to know that things will be handled sensitively so that they don't feel emotionally blackmailed into involvement.

As has been said throughout the thread, those who are unhappy with the way things are currently organised need to ensure that they are offering input into the PTA etc to ensure that the widest range of views is being considered.

It's a bit of a minefield but it can be navigated where people treat one another with a bit of mutual respect.