Advice needed. I am afraid that I may have to put my dog down.

Sarsie

Ok so it's just a case of live with him as best you can until Tuesday for now.

My dog is fine with people (a very friendly boy) but often I'm not so sociable, so I find walking before 7am or after dark limits the number of people I have to see, although after dark the people I do see tend to be a bit rowdier/tipsy so perhaps early mornings are best for a jumpy dog! I don't know if you would be able to keep this up till Tues comes maybe, just to keep him manageable at home over the weekend?

If he's too strong for you have you got a big burly friend who can hold the other end of the lead just for a few days? Sometimes I used to ask my (now ex) husband to do this for an old alsation cross I took in as a basket case (long since tamed and sent out to a loving home), I plain could not hold him at first. It's not a solution but as a temporary measure it might tide you over for now. Be sure to let the helper know what level of misbehaviour your boy can escalate too before they're committed, you wouldn't want any sudden surprises out on the street.

Failing that, I am sometimes too ill to go out, but I have a back garden and I have a working pair of arms. Catch might be pretty blinking boring to me, but a half an hour of catch is as good as an hour of walking on the lead for excercise and my dog likes it. Catch also works if you sit on the landing and throw the ball downstairs as long as dog brings it back. Catch is not a proper subsitute for walkies of course, but it's only 4 days you have to get through. You can set yourself up some help on Tues as soon as that vet all-clears him eh, and then you can find a real solution.

Stay hopeful, he's not a write off yet, and if you can get through this trust me when I say you will find him to the the most loyal and supportive friend you ever had... My dog took a kicking for me recently and I never asked him too, in fact I called him away several times but he returned to it. To keep a long story short someone had thier drink spiked and I was stuck alone with them while they fought off imaginary attackers until I could get out the room and phone the ambulance. My boy placed himself between me and the (otherwise totally lovelly and innocent) person and took every blow. I would never have asked that of him, he would never have drempt of not doing it either... That's the loyalty you'll get from yours (a cross between two very brave breeds) if you can persuade him you can be trusted with it... And that's just a matter of bridging the communication gap- it can all be learned.

Once upon a time you were little and couldn't speak a word of english, so if you can learn a hard langauge like this one then you can learn how to be understood in dog-lish. Don't lose heart. I'm rooting for you and I truly believe with the committment to do it you'll turn this one into the best "person" you ever met, a person who'd take anything for you- coz thats how dogs think, they'll willingly face death for a good boss and they'll do so with a clear concience and a happy heart... See, nothing like humans at all!

As I said it's not all over just yet.

1sue23

Winewaiter wrote: »

Has anyone had experienced something like this which has been successfully sorted?

I owned a german shepherd many years ago and had to have her put tp sleep ,she became very aggressive and hated children and no matter what I could never have trusted her , I lived next to a school and my fear was that she escaped and got into the school playground I know that she would have attacked .
It was a horrible and very painfull discision to have to have her killed and she was only 9 months old but I do think there was something wrong with her mind ,her eyes would fix and look very cold and then she would go into attack mode , I had never seen this in a dog before and never have since .
Painfull as it was I know I did the right thing and I am a responsible dog owner and unless you can be one hundred percent sure that your dog is not going to attack then I think maybe you should not keep this dog the risk with her being a large dog with powerful jaws is a risk I would not want to take .

Sarsie

1sue23 wrote: »

I do think there was something wrong with her mind ,her eyes would fix and look very cold and then she would go into attack mode , I had never seen this in a dog before and never have since .

I can totally relate to that. I've seen sudden dead eyed attack mode in a dog once before. Interestingly it emerged in puppyhood too, at about 6-7 months. This puppy was a cross breed/ mongrel, possibly with alsation but of uncertain origins, he'd been found stray.

I've never seen a dog like it before or since, it was like a shutter fell behind his eyes and he was frenzied and merciless, when it wore off he was the puppy again, episodes were short, maybe 20 minutes for a long one, but there was nothing any of us could do that would make any difference until the episode passed. You couldn't reach him, not even slightly.

To this day I have never really understood what happened with him, he was wrong from birth I believe- poor soul. The vet told us there was nothing that could be done and to be honest I think that was the truth. So he was destroyed, at about 9-10 months I think, but as I said- this was a long time ago.

Ruffles_2

I would hold off neutering him for now until he has first seen the vet and then a qualified behaviourist. Because of his age- well past the stroppy teenage I'll try it on stage and because this is a new behaviour, I would also ask the vet to take a blood sample to check his thyroid is functioning properly. In particular looking at T3 and T4 levels as thyroid disorders can cause aggression.

Once he's had a thorough once over from the vet, I would get him seen by a reputable behaviourist. Have a look on these sites: http://www.apdt.co.uk/ and http://www.capbt.org/findbehaviourist-uk.php for people in your area. The people that join these associations agree to train using positive methods and avoid using coercive methods.

Avoid anyone that trains through dominance based bully boy techniques. It might solve the behaviour in the short term but you could be left with a shut down dog which is a lot harder (and more dangerous) to work with than one that lets you know what they are feeling. I wish I'd got my current foster before the 'trainer' had a go at fixing her.

The reason I've said hang on with the neutering is because if your dog is reacting through fear, castrating him could make him worse. I'd wait until I'd got a behaviourists assesment on what they think is making him react, then go from there.

Good luck with him.

Ruffles_2

Sarsie wrote: »

Your dog basically isn't confident in your leadership.

This will sound silly because why shouldn't he be, after all I expect he is very well cared for... But they think really differently to us.

Basically we people like equality and fairness, dogs don't get that concept at all, everyone in a dogs world is part of a pecking order from the top to the bottom, no equals. We as humans equate peckng orders with bullying but dogs equate them with emotional security. .

I have to disagree with you there, the dominance theory (top dog etc) was actually based on wolf pack studies and the theories were then applied to dogs. More recent studies have concluded that dogs, especially packs of dogs have very fluid relationships that are continously changing.

A confident well balanced dog (if you like, leader material) has no reason to resort to bullying therefore us humans shouldn't need to either.

In my household, the only one that will try and throw her weight around is the least confident and it is based on fear not because she wants to take over the world.

There could be numerous reasons why this dog is acting the way he is but I can guarantee bullying him wont give him emotional security.

Sarsie wrote: »

Lots of little things you think are insignificant are a really big deal to your dog. Like if he eats before you do or the other way round, if he is allowed upstairs when you're downstairs, even how you hold the lead on walks and if you shout at him when he barks and so on... These all mean extra things to dogs beyond the obvious which people would be surprised to know!

I'm intrigued. My dogs eat before me, we live in a bungalow where they can go wherever they like and I normally hold the lead in my left hand. Are these things a big deal to my dogs?

Sarsie wrote: »

Although he is also a young male in his prime too (neutering will help) so he is bound to be a bit more challengy than perhaps is usual

Not necessarily, removing testosterone if it is fear based could escalate the aggressive behaviour. Most dogs go through the challenging stage if at all between 8 months- 2 years old when they hit adolescence. By his age, hormones are normally well settled down.

Welshwoofs

I know nothing about boxers, but I do know about Mastiffs and own a Neapolitan.

First off you should discount the medical issues. Dogs will turn if in pain or afraid and dogs with brain tumours can have complete personality changes.

Mastiffs are very clever dogs and extremely protective of their territory and their people. Mastiffs also tend to challenge your authority at times. To anyone visiting the house, my lad looks like a slathering beast who'll tear their hair out, but once I've told him to stand down the visitor gets greeted by a great grinning lump with a wagging tail.

Could I ask, the first time your dog exhibited this behaviour to visitors, what did you do? Ideally you need one clear command to stop barking and remain calm. If the dog is being extremely possessive over his territory it sometimes helps to put them on a lead (muzzle if necessary) and greet your visitors, with the dog, outside his territory and then have them come in so he doesn't feel so threatened.

Are you very nervous around him? Dogs pick up on fear and the situation may have got into a downward spiral with you getting nervous, him picking up on that and defending the house more aggressively, which in turn makes you more nervous. With any Mastiff breed you need to be very calm and very strong (both in will and strength!) or they'll tend to decide that you need protecting!

Sarsie

You desperately misread me ruffles, let me see if I can straighten it out for you.

Bullying is a human concept, not a concept dogs have or respond to. They do however see the world differently to us (and indeed to wolves). I do not believe a dog who gets nasty is behaving as a human schoolyard bully (who seeks dominace to evidence to himself a sense of worth), I believe the nasty dog is behaving more in an anxious way and needs to be assured that there is nothing to worry about it's all taken care of.

You will also see the techniques and approaches I am suggesting are clearly towards positive re-inforcement (Ms Stillwell being to most famous face of that). The old knee-in-the-neck bull is the overlaying of a human construct onto a dog. To give you an analogy advising a human to view a dog through thought processes a dog doesn't have is about as helpful as advising a male human to bite a female for attention because it works for lions.

So just to be very clear what I'm actually advocating, I said at the outset and I'll say again that a pecking order to a dog is about security and trust that things will be ok and that bullying is a human perception, not applicable to dogs.

I hope that helps clear up what I'm talking about, there is most certainly a very crossed wire here and I do not want to be drawn into a confrontation where I am asked to defend a position I do not hold and have never held.

Ruffles_2

I apologise for getting the wrong end of the stick. Sorry.

Sarsie

Ruffles wrote: »

I apologise for getting the wrong end of the stick. Sorry.

:cool: It's all cool, we all do it sometimes.

At the end of the day the misreading only happened coz you're passionate about animal welfare and that's got to be be a good thing.

Sarsie

WineWaiter how's it going? Was the neutering Ok? Did you ever manage to chose a behaviourist? Postman still got all his arms and legs?