Real life MMD: Is the council tax bill mine?

Nick_C

nikkimatti24 wrote: »

If your brother owns the property and he is renting a bedroom to you, you are not liable for Council Tax as he is liable on the entire property (he is higher up the hierarchy as a resident owner).

If he owns the property and just lets you live in the entire property, you would be liable to contribute. Similarly, if he rents the property you need adding to the tenancy agreement as a third tenant and again you would be liable. However, you need to apply to your Local Authority for Council Tax Benefit and they will pay your 33.33% of the bill. This is only on the condition you have access to the entire property.

This is my job so the above is correct according to legislation (it isn't just my opinion!)

Hope this helps

It is true that if you and your brothers get the landlord to change the tenancy agreement (assuming your brothers are tenants) and make the three of you jointly liable, then you will become jointly liable for Council Tax and eligible for a rebate on your share. However, you would not receive Housing Benefit if your local council believed the joint tenancy had been created to take advantage of the HB scheme.

If your brothers own the property and let you live there with them, you are not liable for Council Tax, and cannot claim CT benefit.

DWAIN_2

It is an honour to help your brother in hard times. One day the tables may be turned.
The working brothers should offer extra financial help to get the unfortunate brother back on his feet.
They may need his kidney one day. Who knows what is in the future.
I can't believe how mean some of these posts are.
I gave up my career to look after my father till he died.
I got depression, then my brothers looked after me.
It's called a family.

dave2

A lot of responses here are relying on assumptions that are wrong or completely unknown. The wording in the OP is that the only kind of contribution being made is housework, nothing towards bills at all.

It's not even clear from the OP what the situation is. Are you living long term with your brothers as a tenant, or are they doing you a favour while you get it back together after your split and redundancy?

Actually, while that is quite fundamental context to the moral perspective (and posters making different assumptions on this explains much of the differences in responses) it's not really that relevant to the cold hard facts.

The issue is what they want you to contribute to the household. They're entitled to ask for whatever they see fit and you can weigh up your options. Personally I certainly would welcome any of my family in for a short time at no cost at all. That might change if it became longer term, or if I was struggling financially myself, but either way I'd be trying to offer as much of a favour as possible. But that's me, I don't know anything about your brother's circumstances and I don't think it's appropriate to judge them.

Regardless, it would be a favour. They have the moral money dilemma, not you.

wendy1983

I know this sounds rude and I am trying not be judgemental here but wouldn't your time be better spent looking for a job than arguing over council tax bills? You should pay the money and of course you should do the housework, your brothers are at work all day to pay taxes that pay for benefits!!!

My partner was out of work a few months back and we got no help at all with anything and that includes council tax! However, he spent all day every day looking for a job and only ended up out of work for 3 weeks. People who want to work get work. Your brothers are being generous in letting you stay there. I think you are forgetting that those of us who work are paying for those of us who choose to live off the state and people who pay council tax are subsidising those who don't.

I wonder what makes people think it is their right to live for free???

Pellyman

This is a Moral dilemma not a Legal (Council Tax) dilemma and, to make it more difficult, we are very short of facts AND it's a family matter - so let's try and stop slagging off the various parties and offer some constructive suggestions.

Firstly, forget the Council Tax - it's a red herring. It seems the brothers, who have opened their home to a sibling, feel their gesture is either not fully appreciated or the newcomer is not contributing sufficiently. Why else would they, apparently belatedly, start suggesting 'contributions'?

I assume this situation has arisen due to the fact that at least two of them expected it to be a short term arrangement (you don't raise the question of an annual tax if it's only for a couple of months) or, more likely, they didn't have the foresight to discuss the financial implications initially (no facts supplied, so forgive the assumption).

Now they are, surely, going to have to sit down together and sort out their individual financial contributions to the total household expenses (of which Council Tax is a part). We should hope that once ALL the weekly/monthly/annual household expenses are analyzed they can agree a method of sharing that is fair, reasonable, stable and long lasting (if Dave and Nick can do it, surely, families can!). Hopefully that sharing would make suitable allowances for the newcomers' ability to pay and the perceived value of the 'housework'. However, that certainly shouldn't leave the newcomer with sufficient spare cash to go to the bookies/bingo/boozer every day, unless they are paying a full third which seems unlikely if not impossible.

I fear that the sibling relationship may have already been damaged, so let's hope they are a close family with the natural family tendency to 'forgive and forget'.

marich

No extra skin (tax) off their noses to give you shelter from your storm . Nice of you to do the housework , but just the same , you could all be taking your share of that burden ...
Family is family , and we should help each other as we can . You help them and they help you . Be thankful , be good , tread softly .

cw18

If I were one of your brothers, then I'd be looking for a contribution to cover the increase in costs of things like gas and electricity (and water if metered), and for you to pay for phone calls you make (easy to cost out with an itemised bill) and pay your share of grocery costs (assuming everyone ate the same thing together and weren't all buying/cooking individually).

But where there's no increase in cost for having you live in the same house (such as TV licence and council tax - and water if on a rateable value bill), then I wouldn't expect a contribution.

So my answer is NO, I don't think it's reasonable of them to expect you to pay a third of the bill - especially as you're giving them more free time by doing the housework for them (I'd probably waive the increase in costs of some of the other bills in return for you doing this as well)

minicooper272

Explain to your brothers the situation and tell them that you are looking into getting something sorted, however it may take some time. Explain that you cannot afford to pay them all of the money just now but that you will talk to the benefits people about it to arrange something for a future set up, in the mean time, can they cover your share.

If the job centre cannot repay your share that you have just received, say to your brothers that you will pay as much as you can afford (even if it's repaying them by £2 a week) and that you will owe them a pint when your first wage packet comes in. They will surely recognise that this is a difficult time and that you have offered to do as much as you can. The offer of a small amount of money each week should ease them and hopefully they will see this as a small repayment that they could waive for now.

Paulgonnabedebtfree

happyinflorida wrote: »

NO, NO, NO!!!! Fill in your council tax benefit form and advise the date you moved in, your brother's council tax will be adjusted to account for you ie a third will be deducted for your share as you are entitled to council tax benefit.

You may also be entitled to help with housing benefit - the same form as long as neither of your brother's owns the house you are all living in, if they do, you cannot claim. If they are renting from a landlord, then you can also apply to have your rent paid by housing benefit, through the council on the same form.

Does it work that way now then?
I had always thought that councils treated people who were related to each other differently from if the OP was just an unrelated lodger. Maybe things have changed from years back. They used to use the fact that people were related as an excuse not to pay. Indeed, wouldn't they, at one time, have assessed the two earning brothers' incomes to check the total income for the household to see if council tax benefits were possible. With two of three working full time that would be unlikely unless low pay were involved. Maybe things have changed.

No10

I agree with 'gaily' you have the use of the electric light, hot water, telephone, toilet paper, tea, coffee, internet etc which you would have had to paid for even if you were getting housing benefits and council tax reductions - talk to them, they are family after all, and they could probably have taken in a lodger if they were that strapped.