Access problems

Ames

Hi all, just wanted a bit of advice on what to do about this problem.

There's a group which is part of social services (I think, it's def part of the council at least) which provides social activities for people with mental health problems. I've looked at a few of their groups, and one I'd really like to join is a pool group (snooker type pool). But it's held in a venue where there's three flights of stairs to get to it. As I'm also physically disabled, I can't manage that. I've seen a lift in the building and asked my support worker to look into it and see if they can turn it on for me to use. she's just phoned back to say that for health and safety reasons people can't use it, it's just for barrells. There's no disabled access to the venue (which is also a nightclub).

Now, I'm really annoyed about it, because if they've got a full sized lift for barrells then surely there's no reason not to have disabled access, ie it's not unreasonable due to the building's age or anything that would exempt it from the DDA.

But I don't know whether I should complain? I don't want to complain to/about the venue in case it has repercussions for the group (who get to use a pool table for free). I also don't want to rock thre boat with the group because it would make it awkward for me to join in other activities with them. But I really don't think they should be running things in inaccessible buildings in the first place! Although they do seem to struggle to accept that people can have mental and physical problems.

So, any ideas on how I can approach this? Or even if I should do anything.

ETA: Forgot to say, the venue apparantly said that they are willing to help me up the stairs, but I don't see how they can do that other than physically carrying me up, which I don't think is a reasonable adjustment (or one they'd want to make given that I'm obese)

[Deleted User]

I'd definitely complain, not to the venue though but to either the organisation that is hosting the event and use the venue. Or the council if they contract in to this organisation for their service users or even both of them!

Carrying you in to the building, even if you were as light as a feather is not an option. What if an emergancy evacuation was needed!

Make a complaint, in writing, and me being me would always copy in my MP so they know what a shoddy job the council are doing and would make a call on your behalf. The council are more likely to act quicker when they see from your letter you've involved the local MP

Indie_Kid

I second what _shel has said.

Ames

Thanks _Shel. Do you think it's worth seeing if the council have an Access Officer and getting them involved too?

I've been referred to this organisation from Social Services in the past, so would that count for contacting the council?

My MP does have more time on his hands now he's no longer a minister!

System

It may well be that the lift was constructed as a goods only lift and it would breach both HSAW and the Lift Regulations to allow its use by people.

Different rules apply to lifts for
1. People
2. People & goods
3. Goods only.

I don't believe even the DDA is powerful enough to overrule HSAW.

Ames

I accept that I can't use the wrong type of lift, but surely they should have installed a lift that's for both people and goods so that they're compliant with the DDA?

System

They must make reasonable alterations to comply with the DDA. As this lift is currently for goods only then it sounds as though it is situated in an area which is not open to the general public when they are operating. I would hate to think of the cost of the design (as each is unique) of a new lift and installation. Then there are the alterations to to provide a clear route from that lift to the 'public' areas suitable for wheelchair users. As they are still operating then the council probably also think that replacement of the lift is not a 'reasonable' adjustment also.

Please accept that not everywhere can be made DDA friendly

Ames

It's right next to the stairs up to the building, if you look at it there's the lift to the right and the stairs to the left. It's not in an area not open to the general public, and it's all wheelchair accessible from the lift - it opens on each floor in the wide landing by the stairs. I'm also not sure how it can be operated without someone inside to push the buttons, they'd have to reach in or jump out quickly. As I said, it just looks like a 'normal' lift. I've been in goods lifts in other venues and they're totally different to passenger ones, this one isn't.

As I said, I'm prepared to (grudgingly) accept that the building isn't accessible, although I don't see why they didn't make it so when they put the lift in. I don't think, however, that a group which aims at including mentally ill people in social activities should be able to hold groups in inaccessible places, and then just shrug their shoulders and not even discuss making adjustments.

[Deleted User]

The point is the council should not be contracting to use a a venue for it's disabled service users that is not accesible by those with mobility problems.

Councils have an Equality Duty to ensure all of it's buildings and contracted services are accesible to all members of the community. In this case they are obviously failing, it's not a point of fitting a lift to this building rather that they should be using other venues that offer similar services that are accesible to all.

They can not legally offer one service to those without mobility problems and substandard or no service to those with.

soolin

It is possible to get activities closed down due to access issues as most of the time the council or the voluntary sector will not put up a fight and just close the scheme for everyone.

One of the organisations I work for have had to close down several activities for vulnerable people as we could not get full disabled access. Taking advice it was easier for us to tell approx 15 users that we could no longer run their support groups/social activites than to fight a claim against us. On one occasion we had to close purely because the toilet whilst having a disabled access logo to the front was not deemed suitable by someone who had a larger mechanical wheelchair than was standard.

We did look into trying another venue but we have very limited funds, we did not expect the users to pay anything for the activites and so had to use a freely offered facility in a centre rather than pay for a proper council Disabled friendly venue.

EDIT : The reason we were running these social activites was because the council had already given up due to the lack of venues locally that were willing to provide rooms or facilities at cost, or even cheaply enough to be afforded.