Is a seller on Ebay legally obliged to sell ?

OlliesDad

toffe wrote: »

Yes it's true ebay do let you you state "returns not excepted" the problem is they will then over rule that term should a buyer complain and force you to refund as will their sister company paypal and there is a term within the ebay and paypal contract which allows this.

Care to say which term this is?

I know Amazon allow returns regardless, but not Ebay or PayPal.

toffe

OlliesDad wrote: »

Care to say which term this is?

I know Amazon allow returns regardless, but not Ebay or PayPal.

I don't have time to flick through the ebay and paypal user agreements to find the exact page and paragraph where the term can be found right now but if your in any doubt that ebay and paypal do force refunds in this situation just do a search of these forums i've read reports of private sellers (who are never oblidged to refund) who have sold by auction on ebay and been forced to refund because the buyer didn't want the goods.

Tozer

toffe wrote: »

Thus the contract by whicy you are supposedly bound s a seller is flawed and, in my view, not compliant with the unfair contract terms acts.

Even if (which I do not necessarily accept) part of a contract falls foul, I cannot see why the remain terms should not apply.

OlliesDad

toffe wrote: »

I don't have time to flick through the ebay and paypal user agreements to find the exact page and paragraph where the term can be found right now but if your in any doubt that ebay and paypal do force refunds in this situation just do a search of these forums i've read reports of private sellers (who are never oblidged to refund) who have sold by auction on ebay and been forced to refund because the buyer didn't want the goods.

I have searched and cannot find any private sellers that are being forced to refund for an unwanted item.

In addition, i found this on ebay:

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/sell/your-return-policy.html

This shows that sellers can set their own terms with regards to returns.

toffe

OlliesDad wrote: »

I have searched and cannot find any private sellers that are being forced to refund for an unwanted item.

In addition, i found this on ebay:

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/sell/your-return-policy.html

This shows that sellers can set their own terms with regards to returns.

I know they can, i never disputed it, but ebay will over rule your terms if they see fit, i'll see if i can find some examples for you laterr.

toffe

OlliesDad wrote: »

I have searched and cannot find any private sellers that are being forced to refund for an unwanted item.

In addition, i found this on ebay:

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/sell/your-return-policy.html

This shows that sellers can set their own terms with regards to returns.

Here we go. just from a quick search of mse i found a recent example of ebay forcing a private seller to refund, (or at least entertaing the buyers request for a refund) where ebay had allowed the seller to state "no returns"

Example: - Private seller, stated no returns, buyer claims there is a fault and ebay allow buyer to open up a returns claim. https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/33223667#Comment_33223667

If you look around other ebay forums you'll see this is a common problem, often resulting in private sellers receiving debt collection letters for money paypal refunded wrongly so the above is not an isolated incident, ebay overrule private and auction sellers right to state "no returns2 on a regular basis.

Unfair if the seller is bound to sell, but the buyer is not bound to the terms of sale.

OlliesDad

toffe wrote: »

Here we go. just from a quick search of mse i found a recent example of ebay forcing a private seller to refund, (or at least entertaing the buyers request for a refund) where ebay had allowed the seller to state "no returns"

Example: - Private seller, stated no returns, buyer claims there is a fault and ebay allow buyer to open up a returns claim. https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/33223667#Comment_33223667

If you look around other ebay forums you'll see this is a common problem, often resulting in private sellers receiving debt collection letters for money paypal refunded wrongly so the above is not an isolated incident, ebay overrule private and auction sellers right to state "no returns2 on a regular basis.

Unfair if the seller is bound to sell, but the buyer is not bound to the terms of sale.

The link that you provided is to do with a faulty/not as described item. The last line states that Paypal removed the frozen funds off hold and the buyer kept the top.

This doesn't back up your claim of these so called terms at all? Can you point me in the direction of any person who has been forced to give a refund as the customer no longer wants the item.

toffe

OlliesDad wrote: »

The link that you provided is to do with a faulty/not as described item. The last line states that Paypal removed the frozen funds off hold and the buyer kept the top.

This doesn't back up your claim of these so called terms at all? Can you point me in the direction of any person who has been forced to give a refund as the customer no longer wants the item.

i will when i've got time, i know this happens, ebay have the final say it is in their agreement, ebay and paypal will let anyone have a refund regardless of the sellers rights.

go and ask the question on the ebay board, "if i state no returns on my listing, and i'm a private seller will ebay/paypal allow me to refuse refunds if someone makes a claim"

Watch the experienced ebay sellers (like myself, 7 years as a seller profesionally) vote a unanimous NO!

It's a well known fact that a buyer can get a refund on ebay regardless of the sellers terms and conditions or what the law says, oh, and an item being faulty does not qualify for a refund if the seller sold at auction unless the seller said, or implied there was no fault.
check the DSR's for clarification.

OlliesDad

toffe wrote: »

Watch the experienced ebay sellers (like myself, 7 years as a seller profesionally) vote a unanimous NO!

7 years professionally, that would mean that you are not a private seller and therfore subject to additional regulations.

I spent some time searching for private sellers with this problem online, but couldn't find any, so obviously not so well known.

toffe

OlliesDad wrote: »

7 years professionally, that would mean that you are not a private seller and therfore subject to additional regulations..

Where did i say i was a private seller?

Where did i say i was not bound by the distance selling regs?

i don't see your point. maybe you don't have one?

OlliesDad wrote: »

I spent some time searching for private sellers with this problem online, but couldn't find any, so obviously not so well known.

i don't have time to search for links to prove this, it's well known amoungst experienced ebay sellers like myself that a buyer on ebay can get a refund no matter what, if they buy via a buy it now or an auction listing, if the seller accepts returns or not, if the distance seling regs apply or not, it does not matter, if the buyer makes a claim they will get a refund, often, even where high value items are concerned, ebay and paypal don't even wait until the item is returned before refunding the buyer meaning the seller often loses the money and the goods.


But regardless of all that the fact remains that no case law exists to prove that an ebay sale is as binding as a traditional auction sale.

In a traditional auction the autioneer is the sellers agent and therefore able to act on the sellers behalf in accepting a bid based on whatever agreement they have regarding reserve prices and discretionary margins. The buyer has chance to inspect the goods before bidding and so the playing field is level and a mutual and fair contract can be formed.

On ebay there is no auctioneer, ebay state they are not an auctioneer, not te sellers agent, so who accepts the bid? no gavel falls so is the lapsing of time equvilant to the fall of an auctioneers gavel?

Or does the lack of an auctioneer mean that online auction bids are no more than offers to buy, only binding if accepted by the seller?

Untill those questions are answered no one knows if any contract of sale is formed and is binding and so far, to my knowledge, no one has taken legal action which would prove that the ebay contract of sale is enforceable.

So if it were me, i wouldn't waste my time trying to enforce something which no one else before me had managed to do.