PayPal Chargeback and dept collectors...

toffe

custardy wrote: »

I think you mean proving you sent?
and it doesnt relieve the seller of any obligation
their obligation is to provide their buyer with what they paid for

No, i mean simply sending/supplying the goods.

All the law states is that if you advertise goods for sale you must supply the goods, they must be as described and fit for purpose. Nothing about sending via trackable delivery. (please do not confuse paypal policy with the law)

think about it, are you telling me that if i sell something and don't send it via trackable delivery i'm breaking the law and not fulfilling my obligation as a business even if the goods are received? Of course not.

Now, if the buyer claimed they had not received the goods i may have a problem if i cant provide reasonable proof of delivery, but as stated above no one has, from what i have read, accused the op of not supplying the goods.

The op is asking for advice on how to deal with the dca, and as it stands the dca is demanding a sum which they claim is a debt due to paypal, not the buyer of the goods and not due to non receipt of goods, it is upto the DCA to prove the debt exists not the op to proove it doesn't.

custardy

toffe wrote: »

No, i mean simply sending/supplying the goods.

All the law states is that if you advertise goods for sale you must supply the goods, they must be as described and fit for purpose. Nothing about sending via trackable delivery.

think about it, are you telling me that if i sell something and don't send it via trackable delivery i'm breaking the law and not fulfilling my obligation as a business even if the goods are received? Of course not.

Now, if the buyer claimed they had not received the goods i may have a problem if i cant provide reasonable proof of delivery, but as stated above no one has, from what i have read accused the op of not supplying the goods.

The op is asking for advice on how to deal with the dca, and as it stands the dca is demanding a sum which they claim is a debt due to paypal, not the byer of the goods and not due to non receipt of goods, it is upto the DCA to prove the debt exists not the op to proove it doesn't.

you said sending it was all a seller had to do
I never said trackable post was a legal requirement
however the OP is talking about a £200 item,so untracked services are not appropriate at that level of value

toffe

custardy wrote: »

you said sending it was all a seller had to do
I never said trackable post was a legal requirement
however the OP is talking about a £200 item,so untracked services are not appropriate at that level of value

ok granted, switch sending in my earlier post for supplying, of course the goods have to actually reach their intended destination and be in good condition, be as described and fit for purpose and the buyer has a right to return under distance selling regulations etc etc,

But while you never said sending via a trackable method was a legal requirement what you did say was,

custardy wrote: »

I think you mean proving you sent?

the op is under no obligation here to prove he sent or supplied the goods.

why?

Because it is not the buyer chasing him for money and as far as i can tell the buyer has not accused him of not supplying the goods.

So as it stands, the op does not have to prove anything to paypal or their DCA it is paypal and the DCA who must prove he owes paypal the sum of money in question.

Hope that clears that up.

woody01

Basically, if you posted via a trackable method to an address provided by PayPal you are pretty much guaranteed to win the dispute.

Sorry...but that is completely wrong.
Trackable does not guarantee delivery.
Also, the chargebacks are often done through the CC company which PayPal have zero jurisdiction over.

toffe wrote: »

Worth pointing out that sending the item is enough to legally fulfill your obligation as a seller

Complete rubbish.
Supplying the item to the customer and ensuring they are SATISFIED fulfils the obligation.
I have read through your comments on this thread and they are all complete fiction.

custardy

woody01 wrote: »

Sorry...but that is completely wrong.
Trackable does not guarantee delivery.
Also, the chargebacks are often done through the CC company which PayPal have zero jurisdiction over.


Complete rubbish.
Supplying the item to the customer and ensuring they are SATISFIED fulfils the obligation.
I have read through your comments on this thread and they are all complete fiction.

regardless of whether PP have jurisdiction over CC chargebacks,they have seller protection
so by following their T&C's you should be covered against paying a chargeback
not having a chargeback opened

cyberbob

If it is a chargeback because of fraudulent use of a credit card you only need proof of posting to defend that in paypal. As I said in the original thread on the paypal board the original poster is better getting some proper advice rather than some opinions off a message board that may or may not be correct. Make an appointment with the CAB debt advisor

toffe

woody01 wrote: »

Complete rubbish.
Supplying the item to the customer and ensuring they are SATISFIED fulfils the obligation.
I have read through your comments on this thread and they are all complete fiction.

You are attempting to disagree with me by Repeating (albeit in different words) something i have already said in post 12

Here it is:

toffe wrote: »

the law states is that if you advertise goods for sale you must supply the goods, they must be as described and fit for purpose..

Of course that quote assumes that by supplying goods that are as described and fit for purpose that the buyer would be "satisfied" with the transaction, however should he not be i think i covered his right to cancel in post 14 where i said:

toffe wrote: »

and the buyer has a right to return under distance selling regulations ..

Ok that mops that up, not fiction at all, believe me after more than 10 years in business i do know my legal obligations inside out and as someone with several years experience in the debt collection industry (for my sins) i can differentiate between consumer protection legislation and debt collection legislation.

You see for all your arguing you are actually arguing the wrong points, the buyer is not the person pursuing the op it is paypal, the buyer has not (as far as i can tell) accused the op of not supplying the goods.

therefore with no allegation from the buyer that goods were not received the op has no obligation or reason to attempt to prove delivery.

Paypal want to claim a sum of money from the op, paypal must prove the debt exists, it is not (legally) upto the op to prove the debt does not exist.

to the op: i suspect no amount of reasoning will pursude certain people that the burdeon of proof here lies with the DCA nd not you but take it from me it does.

If thats not enough (and it's reasonable to want to double check) get profesional advise on the matter but don't be fooled into thinking that you have to disprove the debt, you do not, ignore everything that is written about proof of postage, it does not apply here.

Good luck and if in any doubt, check it out, profesional advice trumps opinions of forum posters anyday.

Best of luck :beer: