cleggeron corporate tax cuts

vivatifosi

Slightly off topic, so apologies...

It wouldn't surprise me if the original source of the data was the FSB quote of 70% being spent in the local high street (which if my memory serves me correctly is money spent in retail not all post-tax earnings), which would have gone out in a press release to AP and the other news agencies and been churned out by the papers ad infinitum...

...this will have then be read by Unison who would have put out another press release to the same press agencies saying that the public sector would spend 70% of its money on the high street too (only the wording seems to have got slightly misquoted in translation).

Its the sort of story that Nick Davis of "Flat Earth News" talks about when he says how much "churnalism" there is this day, filling papers with stories put out by PR agents, picked up by the big news agencies (AP, Reuters etc) and then in turn by all the newsrooms who publish almost identical stories.

.... apologies again for digressing

lemonjelly

Kohoutek wrote: »

That's a huge oversimplification though - you can't seriously believe it was the whole 'private sector' that got us into this situation? Probably 99% of the private sector in the UK contributed nothing towards causing the global financial crisis.

No less an oversimplification than arguing slashing business taxes & public services/expenditure will get us out of this mess.

chucky

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Average public sector pay is 9% higher than the private sector.

Also public sector employees receive pensions which many private sector employees have to self fund.

So your generalisation isn't the real world of the 99% of the Companies in the UK which are small and medium sized.

maybe that's because in the public sector catering, cleaning staff, these are the ones that lower paid are contracted out to the private sector are those that bring down that average...

Thrugelmir

chucky wrote: »

maybe that's because in the public sector catering, cleaning staff, these are the ones that lower paid are contracted out to the private sector are those that bring down that average...

Good point.

Kohoutek

lemonjelly wrote: »

No less an oversimplification than arguing slashing business taxes & public services/expenditure will get us out of this mess.

It's because the government wants to have a sustainable recovery based on more private sector investment and jobs. Do you think the other way round (higher public spending paid for by higher business taxes) would be better?

bioboybill

chucky wrote: »

maybe that's because in the public sector catering, cleaning staff, these are the ones that lower paid are contracted out to the private sector are those that bring down that average...

That's a very good point, Chucky.

I had a quick google of public sector v private sector pay and there is a large disparity in the figures depending on how you calculate them.

Basically the situation isn't very clear at all and there is no real proof that public sector pay is 9% higher (for instance the Times quoted 7% whereas elsewhere it was quoted as a 0.3% differential). However, even a report that said it was 7% higher admitted that most of that was due to rises in GP pay and headteachers etc rather than the majority of public sector workers. They also admitted that the figures don't include private sector bonuses, something that doesn't exist very widely in the public sector.

I'm also a bit annoyed at some people on here who think that public sector workers are getting free pensions whereas those in the private sector pay for theirs. I have been paying 6% (and now 7%) of my wages into my pension for 25 years. No nice free pension here.

Local Government employers used to make a matching contribution, but under Thatcher there was a surplus in the fund, so employers decided to temporarily suspend their contribution. When the stockmarket crashed and the surplus disappeared employers refused to start contributing again. Even now that some councils have large surpluses they refuse to contribute.

Now compare this to my wife's previous employment for an insurance company. She worked there for 20 years and made no contributions whatsoever, but she will receive a nice pension from there which is better than the one she will receive from the Local Government scheme.

JasonLVC

vivatifosi wrote: »

Slightly off topic, so apologies...

It wouldn't surprise me if the original source of the data was the FSB quote of 70% being spent in the local high street (which if my memory serves me correctly is money spent in retail not all post-tax earnings), which would have gone out in a press release to AP and the other news agencies and been churned out by the papers ad infinitum...

...this will have then be read by Unison who would have put out another press release to the same press agencies saying that the public sector would spend 70% of its money on the high street too (only the wording seems to have got slightly misquoted in translation).

Its the sort of story that Nick Davis of "Flat Earth News" talks about when he says how much "churnalism" there is this day, filling papers with stories put out by PR agents, picked up by the big news agencies (AP, Reuters etc) and then in turn by all the newsrooms who publish almost identical stories.

.... apologies again for digressing

I suspect you might be right!.

Remember, the whole "global warming" thing kicked off becuase of what one bloke said at a conference and then everyone else had to keep going with it to avoid the fallout.

kennyboy66_2

Public sector median earnings in 1997 were 13% higher than private sector.
Public sector median earnings in 2008 were 13.6% higher than private sector.

These are the figures published by National Stats. Office.

Possibly disproves the widespread belief that the public sector has enjoyed some kind of pay bonanza under Labour.


(Obviously pensions in private sector have got worse over this period, as final sal. schemes closed or dropped)

If you split the figures out, women in the public sector earn roughly 30% more than private sector. Presumably we are comparing Teachers / Doctors / Nurses versus Tesco check staff (to make a gross over-simplication).

Women of Britain - remember this when that nice David Cameron starts trashing our public sector.

Thrugelmir

bioboybill wrote: »

I'm also a bit annoyed at some people on here who think that public sector workers are getting free pensions whereas those in the private sector pay for theirs. I have been paying 6% (and now 7%) of my wages into my pension for 25 years. No nice free pension here.

Um. What's the states contribution?

I've spent my life in the private sector personally contributing 10% -15% of salary to a personal pension plan for the a majority of the past 25 years. But my pension projection even now falls far short of friends who work in the Public Sector. Who as you say have to only contribute 6% - 7%. There is a real disparity.

Thrugelmir

kennyboy66 wrote: »

Public sector median earnings in 1997 were 13% higher than private sector.
Public sector median earnings in 2008 were 13.6% higher than private sector.

These are the figures published by National Stats. Office.

Possibly disproves the widespread belief that the public sector has enjoyed some kind of pay bonanza under Labour.

Though there are around 500,000 more posts created in the public sector during that time frame.