11 Break between shifts.

fatlad9

a well known bookmakers regularly rota my wife in for 13.75 hour shifts, starting at 8am and finishing at 9.45pm, and then being back in for work the next morning at 8am. These daft shifts come from her area manager.

ceridwen

fatlad9 wrote: »

a well known bookmakers regularly rota my wife in for 13.75 hour shifts, starting at 8am and finishing at 9.45pm, and then being back in for work the next morning at 8am. These daft shifts come from her area manager.

Good job I'm too "over the hill" to even get offered a job by another employer these days...:whistle:.

Or should I try and "draw" a sketch of that cartoon character sitting on a wall going "Wot - no evening:eek:. Where's MY evening gone?:mad:"

...sits there calculating that even if that job is just 30 minutes walk away from my home:
1 hour getting to and from work
8 hours sleep
1.0 hour eating dinner one day and breakfast the next (assuming hubbie did the meal preparing and washing-up in view of my long days)
1.0 hours of "personal care" (eg bath or shower/put on make-up/etc)

Hang on - think I've figured out how they came to the conclusion to make 11 hours the break between shifts by law....as that totals exactly 11 hours. The lawmakers have assumed that no-one takes longer than 30 minutes getting to work/someone else does all the housework and shopping and they don't have any social life/recreation whatsoever on work days.

Mutters:
- allow for at least 3 hours of recreation time
- 2 hours for meal preparation/washing-up after the meals
- 15 minutes to prepare a packed lunch for work the next day

Then that break between shifts is actually at least 6hours 15 minutes too short even if one has the full legal 11 hours worth. One actually needs at least 17 hours 15 minutes break (and that's assuming work is no more than 30 minutes away). Hence the workday cannot be longer than 7 hours 45 minutes or one has to cut back on either sleep or recreation time. There's no time at all for housework or shopping during the week and it all has to be crammed into the weekend - as well as some extra leisure time because it's the weekend and one wants a bit of a break.

dickydonkin

Hammyman wrote: »

Thats tachograph regulations. Working Time Directive (mobile workers) also applies.

Under tacho rules you can legally work up to 84 hrs a week. I used to find it funny when junior doctors were complaining they had to do a 70hr week for 2 years.

I was led to believe that Mobile workers can work up to a maximum 60 hours in any single week provided the average 48hour week is not exceeded in each reference period. See this

You state however, that EU 'tacho rules' a HGV driver can work up to 84hrs per week - would that be possible and still conform to statutory rest periods?

How does that work then?

How can one piece of legislation override another while both are expected to be adhered to?

Jo_F

The thing with HGV drivers is that they have working hours and driving hours, the working hours take into account the loading and unloading time, farting about at depots and stuff like that.

Hammyman

dpassmore wrote: »

I was led to believe that Mobile workers can work up to a maximum 60 hours in any single week provided the average 48hour week is not exceeded in each reference period.

You state however, that EU 'tacho rules' a HGV driver can work up to 84hrs per week - would that be possible and still conform to statutory rest periods?

How does that work then?

How can one piece of legislation override another while both are expected to be adhered to?

PERIOD OF AVAILABILITY (PoA) - the biggest con job ever and brought in to pamper to the haulage companies. Periods of availability do not count towards the working hours for the purposes of the working time directive (mobile workers). A period of availability is when you're not working but are not free to dispose of your time as you want as you may be required to start, so wouldn't count as a rest break.

For example: I go to a Tesco RDC. I get to the goods in office and ask how long I'll be waiting. The clerk says an hour. I go back to the lorry and wait. That hour, or the time up until I end up going onto the bay if its less, counts as PoA. If you know roughly how long you'd be waiting getting unloaded, that also counts as PoA. Three deliveries a day and you can write off over 40% of your working day as far as the WTD is concerned so for the WTD, that 15hr shift becomes 8hrs once tacho breaks and PoAs are taken off. If you're doing the industry average working week of 55hrs and use PoA and take driving breaks as required, it ends up being below 40hrs "work" for the WTD real quick.

The staturory tacho law rest periods are 11hrs for daily rest and 40hrs for weekly rest however you can reduce the daily rest to 9hrs three times a week and reduce the weekly rest to 24. WTD (mobile workers) rest periods are in alignment with EU drivers hours.

You are only allowed to work for 6 periods before taking a weekly rest so:

Monday: Start 0600, finish 2100 - 15hrs.
Reduce daily rest.
Tuesday: Start 0600, finish 2100 - 15hrs
Reduce daily rest.
Wednesday: Start 0600, finish 2100 - 15hrs
Reduce daily rest
Thursday: Start 0600, finish 2000 - 14hrs
no reduced rests available.
Friday: Start 0600, finish 2000 - 14hrs
normal daily rest.
Saturday: Start 0600, finish 2000 - 14hrs.
Sunday: Reduced weekly rest period.

Many many drivers do this - fridge drivers, container drivers, STOBARTS.....

pinkichiban

I would not recommend to any youngster to train as an LGV driver. The pay is dropping and as for the hours! It plays havoc with family life.

ceridwen

Hammyman wrote: »

PERIOD OF AVAILABILITY (PoA) - the biggest con job ever and brought in to pamper to the haulage companies. Periods of availability do not count towards the working hours for the purposes of the working time directive (mobile workers). A period of availability is when you're not working but are not free to dispose of your time as you want as you may be required to start, so wouldn't count as a rest break.

For example: I go to a Tesco RDC. I get to the goods in office and ask how long I'll be waiting. The clerk says an hour. I go back to the lorry and wait. That hour, or the time up until I end up going onto the bay if its less, counts as PoA. If you know roughly how long you'd be waiting getting unloaded, that also counts as PoA. Three deliveries a day and you can write off over 40% of your working day as far as the WTD is concerned so for the WTD, that 15hr shift becomes 8hrs once tacho breaks and PoAs are taken off. If you're doing the industry average working week of 55hrs and use PoA and take driving breaks as required, it ends up being below 40hrs "work" for the WTD real quick.

The staturory tacho law rest periods are 11hrs for daily rest and 40hrs for weekly rest however you can reduce the daily rest to 9hrs three times a week and reduce the weekly rest to 24. WTD (mobile workers) rest periods are in alignment with EU drivers hours.

You are only allowed to work for 6 periods before taking a weekly rest so:

Monday: Start 0600, finish 2100 - 15hrs.
Reduce daily rest.
Tuesday: Start 0600, finish 2100 - 15hrs
Reduce daily rest.
Wednesday: Start 0600, finish 2100 - 15hrs
Reduce daily rest
Thursday: Start 0600, finish 2000 - 14hrs
no reduced rests available.
Friday: Start 0600, finish 2000 - 14hrs
normal daily rest.
Saturday: Start 0600, finish 2000 - 14hrs.
Sunday: Reduced weekly rest period.

Many many drivers do this - fridge drivers, container drivers, STOBARTS.....

I dont think many of us know that - thanks for telling us:eek:

wendyphant

dmg24 wrote: »

I assume you are referring to personal experience, and not the NHS as a whole?

NHS Trusts are very up on their HR policies, and if such a requirement is being breached, an individual (or their union) should make a complaint to ensure the breach does not happen again in the future.

Have worked for four different nhs trusts/lhb's in 8 different hospitals on numerous different wards and ummmmmmm can I ask WHAT IS A BREAK???

Jo_F

pinkichiban wrote: »

I would not recommend to any youngster to train as an LGV driver. The pay is dropping and as for the hours! It plays havoc with family life.

That all depends on the company that you work for, my other half has just gone through his class 2 and then Class 1, and the companies that he is chatting to are looking to offer him casual days (so he doesn't have to give his regular job up) and the pay they are paying their drivers is pretty good.

This is for day runs, he aims in the future to do it full time and do weeks out.

We are aware that it is going to impact on the time together, but, if we don't see that much of each other, then we won't fall out as much!

Mrs_Ryan

In my PCT we get paid extra because we dont get the full break between shifts - for example I am working a late shift (13.00-21.00) today (Saturday) then tomorrow (Sunday) I am in on an early shift (07.00-14.30) therefore only getting a 10 hour break and in some cases its only 9.5 if working a late late shift (13.30-21.30) I think things like the fire service, police, ambulance service its a bit different to the usual rules.