When are puppies ready?

Frugalista

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

I can see the author of the article you link to attributes the early death of some of her dogs from cancer with the fact they had been vaccinated... whilst I understand her concern, I can see little evidence of cause and effect here - it seems to be on a par with the autism/mmr concerns - in that is raises an interesting question, but it's not proven.

As far as relating autoimmune/inflammatory responses to vaccines, I certainly know of someone who had no childhood vaccinations at all, (due to parental concerns) and went on to develop a chronic lifelong autoimmune/inflammatory condition in early adulthood...

ETA - I have luckily never had a dog with any of the problems the author is concerned about, but I have had a dog that almost died from distemper, and a friends dog died of lepto after being bitten by a rat..

OK! Whatever!

I'm sure you truely belive you know better and that the experts such as Dr Jean Dodds, etc, have wasted their lives on research and studies. Ho-Hum!!

foreign_correspondent

Frugalista wrote: »

OK! Whatever!

I'm sure you truely belive you know better and that the experts such as Dr Jean Dodds, etc, have wasted their lives on research and studies. Ho-Hum!!

not at all - just my opinion - and even the scientists disagree about contentions issues - and as much of the evidence is so far anecdotal, some anecdotal evidence from my own experiences that makes me feel that vaccinating is preferable to not.

giantmutantbroccoli

Personally I think 6 weeks is too young - 8 weeks is normal as it allows the pups more time to socialise amungst themselves. Depending on the dog I'd say about 10 weeks is ideal as that gives them time to get used to being around other dogs.

Frugalista wrote: »

OK! Whatever!

I'm sure you truely belive you know better and that the experts such as Dr Jean Dodds, etc, have wasted their lives on research and studies. Ho-Hum!!

The article appears to cite a lot of scientific articles, but when I looked I couldn't find any of them. None of the links go to the actual papers, apart from the Gary Smith one, and I don't see any evidence there that vaccines cause diseases. I'm not saying that they definitely don't, or that yearly vaccines are absolutely necessary, but that article is far more emotive than it is informative. I'd say it's downright manipulative.
Gary Smith is also not a student struggling against the scientific establishment and Evil Big Pharma, well he may be, but he's also head of Perses Biosystems Ltd. And the writer of the article has a business selling alternative therapies and related products so she's hardly a neutral party.

While we're on the subject, what about all the experts on the other side of the argument?

I got my cat vaccinated. I'm encouraging my parents to get theirs vaccinated. The family dogs got vaccinated. Everyone I know at work who has a pet (approx 8 or 9 people, of the top of my head) got their pets vaccinated. All of these people are scientists, some of them work in immunology. The general, scientific, consensus is that vaccines prevent diseases, not cause them.

Sorry if this comes across a bit off, I just find all the "it's a big scientific conspiracy" things really irritating.

alleycat`

There are a lot of ways to look at vaccination but generally the consensus opinion is that it is undertaken for the good of the many.

There are cases where vaccination doesn't take or can make animals / humans very ill. Poor/over active immune response and possible contaminated/incorrect vaccine preperation are known to happen in rare but unfortunate cases.

Generally that risk is weighed against the impact that not doing it would be more damaging overall to the general population of a species or group of species.

The more people or animals that are vaccinated means that those that are not are less likely to come into contact with the disease and if they do they are less likely to be in a position to spread the disease.

It doesn't mean the sceptics are "wrong" about vaccination and problems it just means (in my mind) that their tolerance to the acceptance of "bad things happening" are lower than those that think vaccination is a good thing.

Having said all that i suspect we are now way off topic

(o and if you gave me the option of having the vaccines broken into individual shots over time rather than bulk - e.g. MMR in humans - i'd choose that every time - with no scientific rationale at all - i just feel better about it..)

hethmar

Getting back to the OPs question

8 weeks is best as in those last few weeks before you collect them they are learning to socialise with their litter mates. This can make a big difference to their confidence. Having said that we picked Ralph up at just 6 weeks, but only because his PTS appointment was the next morning. Given the choice it would have been nice to have let him join in some rough and tumble with other dogs first.

For the record, I worry very much about the doses of innoculations that dogs seem to get now. I mean we dont drag kids to a doctor every year for boosters do we. I often wonder if the amount of dogs with skin problems have anything to do with the amount of chemicals pumped into them.

Frugalista

hethmar wrote: »

I often wonder if the amount of dogs with skin problems have anything to do with the amount of chemicals pumped into them.

A lot of other people think so ...

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/petvacc.htm

ka7e

I think they come in contact with far more chemicals externally. Grass verges and gardens where pesticides and plant food are used. They're right on the level of car exhausts. Cleaning products and sprays in the house (deoderant, hair products, perfumes in everything). Washing powder on bedding. Flea sprays and drops.

foreign_correspondent

ka7e wrote: »

I think they come in contact with far more chemicals externally. Grass verges and gardens where pesticides and plant food are used. They're right on the level of car exhausts. Cleaning products and sprays in the house (deoderant, hair products, perfumes in everything). Washing powder on bedding. Flea sprays and drops.

I agree - to be fair everything we eat, or drink, or are surrounded by is chemical anyway!;)

Overall, I think vaccines are a wonderful thing - without them we would still be disfigured by smallpox, children would be born with disabilies due to rubella, childhood mortality would still be commonplace, and many dogs would die of lepto and parvo... all vaccines are different, and some last longer than others - a human tetanus jab is not life long... however, whenever new vaccines come out there is inevitably a scare story attached - just look at the new cervical cancer vaccine for proof of that - but hopefully it is a medical advance that will save countless women's lives and avoid much suffering and heartache.

The fact that some dogs have various health problems including cancer, and the same dogs have also had vaccines does not mean vacs cause illness. We may feel that dogs were less affected by these illnesses years ago, and surmise that vaccines may be responsible... but as you say, they are not the ony factor in a dogs typical life that has changed - our entire environment has changed.. many dogs now live in centrally heated, fully carpeted houses, which was unusual even fifty years ago - they are also largely fed on commercially prepared diets - again, unusual fifty years ago.

The other big factor is, of course, is that as with humans, many more cancers are now diagnosed - years ago dogs and people just got sick and died - often with the cause unidentified, or wrongly attributed - no MRIs to see hidden tumours, treatment for animal cancers was unavailable or unnaffordable, so diagnosis was not a priority.

katie1234

Thanks to everyone for your replies! i was worried before about getting one that was as young as 8 weeks but i see now that thats probably the norm so feeling better about that now.

LibbyR26

Please do not "touch them with a barge pole." If they are willing to let the pups go at such an early age they obviously are just in it to make a quick buck and don't have the pups' best interests at heart. Keep looking until you find more responsible breeders who won't let the pups go till at least 8 weeks.

I visited numerous breeders of varying qualities over a period of months before finding the right one. Considering you will have a wonderful companian for maybe 15 years it is well worth holding out at this stage.

Good luck