Labour Government Pushing Through Spending Against Civil Servants Advice

ninky_2

A._Badger wrote: »

Precisely! Moreover it was yet another step on the rocky road to the surveillance state that Labour seemed bent on forging.

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i'm neither libertarian nor authoritarian. however i find it worrying that people are happier for private companies to have more details on them than the government. tesco clubcard is more high surveillance than id cards ever would be. as is every credit card or debit card you own.

i don't see the problem with id cards myself. we've long passed my idea of a 'free' society where you can just pick any bit of land, make a home for yourself and have free access to come and go around the world as you please. having your details on an id card is small fry.

A._Badger

ninky wrote: »

i'm neither libertarian nor authoritarian. however i find it worrying that people are happier for private companies to have more details on them than the government. tesco clubcard is more high surveillance than id cards ever would be. as is every credit card or debit card you own..

I'm not sure how you can justify that assertion. Or, to put it less equivocally, I am certain you can't.

You do have a point about commercial data gathering, and it needs addressing.

ninky wrote: »

i don't see the problem with id cards myself. we've long passed my idea of a 'free' society where you can just pick any bit of land, make a home for yourself and have free access to come and go around the world as you please. having your details on an id card is small fry.

I think that is rather complacent. To put it mildly. It is the State's business to serve the citizen - not vice versa, though I do realise that is an unpopular point of view among many socialists.

StevieJ

A._Badger wrote: »

Precisely! Moreover it was yet another step on the rocky road to the surveillance state that Labour seemed bent on forging.

I am not really well up on ID cards but what is the difference in having one of them as opposed to a passport? apart from the obvious about a passport that you don't need one if you don't go abroard

A._Badger

StevieJ wrote: »

I am not really well up on ID cards but what is the difference in having one of them as opposed to a passport? apart from the obvious about a passport that you don't need one if you don't go abroard

The site sums it up well. And no, I am not a member, http://www.no2id.net/

Alan_Cross

A._Badger wrote: »

. It is the State's business to serve the citizen - not vice versa, though I do realise that is an unpopular point of view among many socialists.

To put it very gently, some of us benighted socialists hold the pinko, commie view that 'serving the citizen' might just include the concept of stopping Badgers being blown up by terrorists.

We do, of course, realise the error of our ways and acknowledge that, in an era when criminals are becoming ever more canny technologically, what the situation really cries out for is a return to Victorian era policing methods complete with whistles and truncheons.

We had forgotten the Tory love for Victorian values. Please do forgive our silliness.

A._Badger

Alan_Cross wrote: »

To put it very gently, some of us benighted socialists hold the pinko, commie view that 'serving the citizen' might just include the concept of stopping Badgers being blown up by terrorists.

Ah yes, the old excuses, dragged out of the grab bag of history. I suppose Orwell is off the curriculum these days?

Alan_Cross wrote: »

We do, of course, realise the error of our ways and acknowledge that, in an era when criminals are becoming ever more canny technologically, what the situation really cries out for is a return to Victorian era policing methods complete with whistles and truncheons.

We had forgotten the Tory love for Victorian values. Please do forgive our silliness.

Silliness is an easy sin to forgive. Mendacity and deviousness, less so. The Kings Cross bombers would have been fully entitled to that nice Mr Straw's identity cards - as would many other of the cuddly terrorists imported by our mercifully just turfed-out government.

Incidentally, I am not a Conservative and offer no apologies or excuses for Cameron and his hastily nailed-together coalition.

Alan_Cross

A._Badger wrote: »

Ah yes, the old excuses, dragged out of the grab bag of history. I suppose Orwell is off the curriculum these days?



Silliness is an easy sin to forgive. Mendacity and deviousness, less so. The Kings Cross bombers would have been fully entitled to that nice Mr Straw's identity cards - as would many other of the cuddly terrorists imported by our mercifully just turfed-out government.

Incidentally, I am not a Conservative and offer no apologies or excuses for Cameron and his hastily nailed-together coalition.

Whatever you are, your arguments amount to a value somewhere below zero.

When faced with organised terrorism, you are basically proposing that the country should voluntarily opt out of using whatever countermeasures may be available to it - and this on the grounds that they offend some people's ideas of what an ideal society should look like.

Well sorry, but this is the real world and I do not wish my children to be blown up in the name of protecting your idealistic vision.

A._Badger

Alan_Cross wrote: »

Whatever you are, your arguments amount to a value somewhere below zero.

When faced with organised terrorism, you are basically proposing that the country should voluntarily opt out of using whatever countermeasures may be available to it - and this on the grounds that they offend some people's ideas of what an ideal society should look like.

Well sorry, but this is the real world and I do not wish my children to be blown up in the name of protecting your idealistic vision.

And I would rather mine didn't live in some dystopian hell, foisted on us under the pretence that it will achieve anything at all in the way of protection from ruthless enemies.

new_home_owner_3

Blonde beards grow faster than darker beards.

michaels

If you haven't done anything then what have you got to worry about...is fine until they bring in a law out-lawing your religion or forcing you to drop your moral beleifs at which point you realise too late what giving up your identity to the state means.