Think the unthinkable - let's help the coalition with some blue-skies thinking...

jonewer

LydiaJ wrote: »

The NHS does not provide home care for people who need help with dressing/bathing etc. They have to pay for it. It is very expensive. They can claim some benefits to help with the cost of it.

Which would be catered for in the citizens income.

jonewer

One other thing - affordable public transport.

The trains in this country are a joke. When it costs more to catch a train from Birmingham to Crew one way than it does to fly return to malaga, something is seriously wrong.

The current unofficial policy of taxing people of the roads AND rails is silly.

wymondham

Stop giving foreign aid to country's that have a space program (ie india)
Simplify the tax system to a single tax so everyone can understand it.
Scrap car tax and levy it on fuel

A re-evaluation of our position in the world: We are no longer a power of any significance - we can't afford it and should step back a bit...

Do away with park and ride schemes .... make the normal bus better and cheaper option, not one where you have to buy a bus ticket and own a car!

The ultimate goal : Make working a desirable alternative to not working.

lynzpower

jonewer wrote: »

I'm not talking about the NHS, I'm talking about the bizarre range of benefits and tax credits out there, many of which are a dis-incentive to work and and represent a 'benefits trap' where effective tax rates for those attempting to return to work can be as high as 95%.

With a single citizens income, there is no disincentive to work for fear of reducing your benefits, so any income you manage to generate makes you wealthier. There is also no disincentive to save for old age. Altogether it promotes a very strong incentive to save, be prudent, look after yourself, and prosper!

The citizens income would save money by simplifying the administration of the current morass of benefits, and avoid the estimated £2.6billion lost each year to fraud and mistakes.

And why shouldnt everyone get the same? Thats the exact principle the NHS is founded on. Everyone from a vagrant to the Queen gets the same care provided free at the point of delivery.

As to "why bother", well if you dont, you will be the poorest person in the country. Which is not much fun for anyone. There was a study a while back where people were asked, all other things remaining the same, if they would rather earn £1million and everyone else in the country £100,000, or, would they rather earn £10million and everyone else £100million. Its of note that virtually everyone questioned chose to earn ten times less, just so long as they earned ten times more than everyone else!

Such is human nature.

Few points to make here:
No the NHS doesnt give everyone "the same" it treats people depending on what circumstances they present with. So not a one-size-fits-all - as clearly in the health service it doesn! you get treated for the illness that you present with- and not others.

If everyone in the UK got given free money for nothing tell me how that makes the taxpayer treat people fairer. IN terms of a citizens income I guess everyone has to pay astronomical amounts of tax to ensure that everyone gets to take from the state? Where does all this lovelybountiful free cash come from?

Universality is bonkers, and a waste.

Personally I think we should be getting rid of Child benefit as a universal benefit totally. Yes, if you are on a low income you can get support, but I dont see why the likes of millionaires and other top earners should be getting a state handout.

I do think it worthwhile to support children in "normal" brackets, and that should be suported via the new incarnation whatever it is of tax credits/ family credit etc.

Im all for exploring flat tax- this will certainly achieve what you set out.

lynzpower

jonewer wrote: »

Which would be catered for in the citizens income.

How much would the citizens income be?

LydiaJ

LydiaJ wrote: »

The NHS does not provide home care for people who need help with dressing/bathing etc. They have to pay for it. It is very expensive. They can claim some benefits to help with the cost of it.

jonewer wrote: »

Which would be catered for in the citizens income.

My mother has a neuro-degenerative disease that means she needs help with physical things like washing and dressing, and she also has dementia. When she came out of hospital a few months ago, my dad was available to care for her 24/7, but needed a few fairly brief visits a day from carers who could help him with the things that needed two people to do. A basic package to do this costs about £20k pa. If he wasn't available, her care would cost many times that. Is your proposed citizen's income going to provide that much? If so, how are you going to fund it?

jonewer

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lynzpower wrote: »

Few points to make here:
No the NHS doesnt give everyone "the same" it treats people depending on what circumstances they present with. So not a one-size-fits-all - as clearly in the health service it doesn! you get treated for the illness that you present with- and not others.

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Of course you get different treatment for different ailments but the point is its not means-tested and and silly postcode lotteries notwithstanding, everyone gets the same treatment for the same ailment, free at point of delivery. People dont get turned away from hospitals because they have a few grand in the bank/dont have enough kids/etc.
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lynzpower wrote: »

If everyone in the UK got given free money for nothing tell me how that makes the taxpayer treat people fairer. IN terms of a citizens income I guess everyone has to pay astronomical amounts of tax to ensure that everyone gets to take from the state? Where does all this lovelybountiful free cash come from?

Universality is bonkers, and a waste. [/FONT]
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We already pay pay astronomical amounts of tax to keep people trapped in benefits while disincentivising savings, prosperity and prudence. The amount paid in tax need not vastly exceed that already paid since virtually all the extra tax paid will return to the taxpayers account, minus a few pennies for admin. All of which will be more than compensated for by increased productivity and axing the legion of civil servants and accounts who currently misadminister the present system.
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lynzpower

jonewer wrote: »

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Of course you get different treatment for different ailments but the point is its not means-tested and and silly postcode lotteries notwithstanding, everyone gets the same treatment for the same ailment, free at point of delivery. People dont get turned away from hospitals because they have a few grand in the bank/dont have enough kids/etc.
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

We already pay pay astronomical amounts of tax to keep people trapped in benefits while disincentivising savings, prosperity and prudence. The amount paid in tax need not vastly exceed that already paid since virtually all the extra tax paid will return to the taxpayers account, minus a few pennies for admin. All of which will be more than compensated for by increased productivity and axing the legion of civil servants and accounts who currently misadminister the present system.
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I ask again, how much would this citizens income be?

Gorgeous_George

We need less people.

Legalise euthanasia - it can be voluntary at first.

Limit families to 2 children. And do it retrospectively

GG

lynzpower

I have always agreed with euthanasia.

I personally want it. Once someone else needs to take me to the loo and wash my bum for me, I dont want to be here, nor would I want the taxpayer paying the 20 quid an hour for the privilidge of me contributing jack t the world except further environmental degradation.

What is wrong with not wanting to be a drain on the state? It seems fine to encourage that attitude when you are of working age but not when you are not of working age and that we should pay astronomical amounts of money to keep people artificially alive beyond what nature wants.

Very weird.