Rip diy btl

IveSeenTheLight

Blacklight wrote: »

I can't see it's really going to have much of an impact. Greater turnover of houses in a portfolio perhaps, but certainly no massive flood of ex-rentals on the market.

Further to this, the higher house prices are, the more money that is exempt.
To clarify:-

Buy a house today for £160k.
Rent out for 25 years with the rental income covering the capital and interest mortgage.
After 25 years, let's say the property is worth £426k (just a plucked out of the air figure which works out at 4% per year).
Capital gains would then be applicable to approx £240k (allowing a joint allowance of £26k)
So they pay the £96k to the government and walk away with £330k that the rental tenants have covered the costs.

Very simplistic, but an easy example of why higher prices will not necessarily deter a BTL investor, who can view this as deductable from the final selling price.

what remains important is that the rental income is sufficient to make the property BTL viable.

Cleaver

macaque wrote: »

Does this not prove the point? In dealing with an amateur landlord, the renter has to try and determine the track record, financial stability, criminal record, integrity and in some cases even the mental health of the owner. This is no easy task.

I'm in agreement with you here - more visability of landlords (all of them) would be a welcome step. Please though, stop with this amateur / professional stuff. There are good landlords who treat tenants well (both in terms of customer service and rules and regulations) and there are poor landlords who don't. I'll say it one more time: it makes no real difference if you've been doing it for 20 years and make millions from it or whether you're an accidental landlord who rents one flat because you can't sell it. If you treat your tenants with respect, you're a good landlord. If not, you're a bad landlord.

The customer still has some responsibility though. Ask your landlord the questions you want answers to, and if you don't get them then don't rent their house.

macaque wrote: »

Even with the greatest care, the renter can often discover that the landlord has personal problems or harbours an intention to flip the property at the first convenient opportunity.

Very true. But then that's renting in the UK, isn't it? It's one of the many factors that makes most people aspire to own their own home. If renting was more pleasurable then I'm sure this obsession with home-ownership would diminish somewhat, as I believe is the case on the continent where renters have more rights. Poor landlords weren't the only reason we bought a house, but it was definitely a factor.

macaque wrote: »

Not all professional landlords behave well, but as a group they represent a much lower risk for the renter and their track records are much easier to measure.

That might be your experience, but it certainly isn't mine. I've had four landlords in my life. All were 'professional' - in that they all owned multiple properties (10+ in the case of all of them) and all did it for a living, not part time. All of them treated us pretty badly and had little or no respect for us as tenants. We took one of them to the small claims court (they settled before it got there). So they may have been 'professional' in name, but certainly not in their nature.

Gorgeous_George

You are wasting your time Cleaver. These threads are started by people with a huge chip on their shoulder. Probably Sun 'readers'.

As an amateur BTL LL, I treat my tenant with respect and in the manner that I would wish to be treated. For me, it is a bit of a hobby but that doesn't make me a poor Landlord. If my livelihood depended on it I might not be quite as generous as I am.

I've never had a Landlord but if I did, I'd like one like me or like you or like many of the other amateurs on these forums.

I also know which posters I wouldn't like as tenants.

GG

Exocet

Gorgeous_George wrote: »

I also know which posters I wouldn't like as tenants.

Just in case we ever find ourselves looking for rented accomodation can I point out that I enjoy your posts very much George. And I am expecting a cheque on Wednesday.

IveSeenTheLight

Gorgeous_George wrote: »

I've never had a Landlord but if I did, I'd like one like me or like you or like many of the other amateurs on these forums.

Indeed, one could argue that us "amateur" landlords are more professional than others.

You could on the otherhand say that we are not professional as we are more compassionate to our tenants

Shakethedisease

Leaving aside your naieve view that the changes in CGT rules will increase the tax burden for all property investors, your desire to see BTL investors fail is a odd one for someone who describes himself as a "long term renter". A decrease in the supply of available rental properties would drive up rents massively.

Get real luv ? Who's going to pay your mortgages off then ? How on earth do you think there would be a decrease of housing ? The houses are still there and the mortgages still need to be paid. A sizeable proportion of which are on interest only loans that just won't be available when they try to remortgage. A lot of landlords will take any tenant they can get as long as the mortgage is getting paid, or at least some of it.

As an amateur BTL LL, I treat my tenant with respect and in the manner that I would wish to be treated. For me, it is a bit of a hobby but that doesn't make me a poor Landlord.

Well I'd definately reassured as a potential tenant hearing those words... ( NOT ! ).

I'll say it one more time: it makes no real difference if you've been doing it for 20 years and make millions from it or whether you're an accidental landlord who rents one flat because you can't sell it. If you treat your tenants with respect, you're a good landlord. If not, you're a bad landlord.

Won't make any blerdy difference what kind of landlord you are if your investment, well, suddenly isn't a viable 'investment' anymore. They'll be on the market.

Then there's not only the CGT to worry about, but also the proposed 'housing benefit's/LHA cap's' in your local area.. which will also bring the rental levels down.

If the proposed changes to CGT and LHA rates come to fruition then amateur or professional.. I'd be a bit worried right now if I was a landlord tbh. Selling on being taxed at 40%, yet rental rates also being capped via LHA in an era of rising unemployment and benefits claimants. No dss ? 100 quid credit checks per person ? Good luck finding a tenant. With ultimately the LHA rates forcing and setting new market rates.

However it's cut. It doesn't look the best investment. But I guess we'll all have to wait and see what happens in the emergency budget.

If so, hopefully there'll be a flood of properties on the market. With little BTL appetite anymore to get into property as an 'investment' vehicle. Then hopefully we won't need to listen to the below sort of !!!!! anymore.
A somewhat trite quote completely disregarding the fact the mortgage(s) still have to be paid even if the house, or 3 houses, or 30 houses or the entire portfolio is taken out of the rental market ---->

A decrease in the supply of available rental properties would drive up rents massively

People would just buy the houses to live in again, like they used to. And the 'can't sell so will just rent it out even if I don't have a clue' brigade... will just sell at a realistic level because renting it out waiting and hoping for house prices to go up, will just cut their losses because it's too much hassle being a landlord.

Mabye then landlords really will be in it for the long term, treat it like the business service it is and do it as a 'profession' rather than a quick flip.