Rip diy btl

macaque_2

Professional landlords provide a useful service. The same cannot be said of the armies of DIY renters that have flooded the market in recent years. If a change in CGT rules can flush out these amateur BTL speculators, I see this as a very positive development.

One man’s meat is another man’s poison and whilst buy-to-let investors will be looking anxiously at the proposals to tax capital gains at anything up to 50%, first time buyers should see an opportunity to get on to the home owning ladder at a reasonable price.

http://www.citywire.co.uk/personal/-/comment/property-and-mortgages/content.aspx?ID=399725

Gorgeous_George

Most amateur landlords will not have a capital gain to worry about.

While you may consider a redution in landlords as a good thing, many tenants may disagree. My tenant can sleep easy in the knowledge that I intend never to pay CGT on her home.

Is it time to lose that chip off your shoulder?

GG

Cleaver

macaque wrote: »

Professional landlords provide a useful service. The same cannot be said of the armies of DIY renters that have flooded the market in recent years.

Can you clarify what you mean?

For example, we rented a place from a 'professional landloard', in that he had about 50 properties and made a shed-load of money from it all. He was a complete sh*t and treated us (and all his other tenants) like dirt. There were four flats in the block he built and rented and we all hated him. The Wilson's are 'professional landlords', but I wouldn't want to rent from them.

We were 'DIY renters'. We didn't want to sell our house in 2007 so we rented it out. We were so paranoid of doing it badly that we probably were too nice to our tenants (if that's possible). We pretty much provided them with everything they wanted and tried to make them as happy as possible and I know from feedback that the people who rented our house enjoyed the experience as they bought us a gift when they moved out.

I would change your statement to say:

Good landlords provide a useful service. Poor landlords provide a poor service. It's as simple as that. Someone who owns 50 properties and makes a living from it could be a complete cowboy, whilst someone who is renting out a house they couldn't sell could be a fantastic landlord (and vice versa of course).

shane42

macaque wrote: »

Professional landlords provide a useful service. The same cannot be said of the armies of DIY renters that have flooded the market in recent years. If a change in CGT rules can flush out these amateur BTL speculators, I see this as a very positive development.


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iam not a LL professional or amateur so this is only an observation
how does an amateur become a professional without first making mistakes and being an amateur?

new_home_owner_3

I cant see how it will help first time buyers they will still have to pay how much the house is worth, they wont get the 40% capital gains off the price.

Plus most amateur landlords dont have much equity and if their a couple there entitled to 40,000 pounds each tax relief, aswell as 10,000 pound a year each, so they will need to be making a gain of 100,000 pound before paying any capital gains.

So to say it will help first time buyers is a bit of the mark because anyone who has a first time buyers property that has gained over 100,000 pound will have had to buy it in 1926.

Thats unless your first time buyer property is not a 360,000 pound house with paddock,swimming pool,fishing lake and running track.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

macaque wrote: »

If a change in CGT rules can flush out these amateur BTL speculators, I see this as a very positive development.

Hmmmm, just a couple of questions, monkeyboy.....

1. Do we really need four or five threads on the same CGT news, with the same angle on BTL? The impact on other investments, like shares or precious metals, (often owned by housing bears), will be just as bad, yet there's little commetary on that so far.....

2. Lets say a married couple buy a BTL for 100K, own it for 5 years and sell it for 140K.... Perhaps you could explain for the audience how much capital gains tax they would pay, and therefore why you think this would put them off BTL?

Cleaver

shane42 wrote: »

iam not a LL professional or amateur so this is only an observation
how does an amateur become a professional without first making mistakes and being an amateur?

There's a myth on this site that there are professional, decent, professional landlords who make money, own 20+ properties and are great, and then an army of DIY landlords, who are clueless, unprofessional, don't know what they're doing, own one house and treat their tenants badly. Like a lot of issues on this site, it's nice and easy to think of the situation in very black and white terms.

The more complex reality is that some lanlords are good, some are bad, and there are lots in between. Some good ones will have one property, some will have 100. Some bad ones will have one property, some will have 100.

The one thing I disagree about your post is that you shouldn't 'make mistakes' as a landlord, in terms of the basics. If you don't understand that you need certain checks for the property, a correct mortgage, an ideology that your tenant is your customer and good knowledge of the laws that govern rental properties then you shouldn't be a landlord.

shane42

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Hmmmm, just a couple of questions, monkeyboy.....

1. Do we really need four or five threads on the same CGT news, with the same angle on BTL? The impact on other investments, like shares or precious metals, (often owned by housing bears), will be just as bad, yet there's little commetary on that so far.....

2. Lets say a married couple buy a BTL for 100K, own it for 5 years and sell it for 140K.... Perhaps you could explain for the audience how much capital gains tax they would pay, and therefore why you think this would put them off BTL?

CGT = £10100 per per person so £20,200 , after that i have no idea but its interesting and i guess there is a clue un the 5 years bit?

macaque_2

Cleaver wrote: »

Can you clarify what you mean?

I speak as a long term renter and my concerns are as follows:

1. On two occassions, landlords have assured me that they were looking for rental periods of 3 years plus only to sell the house after 12 months. One did not even have the courtesy to tell us they were selling. I have a family which means moving house is expensive and very disruptive.

2. One amateur BTL rented us a house where many of the basic amenities were in very poor condition. He became very upset when we asked for essential repairs even though we were paying a high rent.

3. Some amateur BTLs have no idea about the basic rules. On several occassions I have had landlords access my home without my permission. One even let himself into the property whilst we were having dinner.

4. The tenant looks to the landlord for stability. Although I have not experienced it personally, I read on these forums about landlords with serious personality problems or financial problems.

If new CGT rules shake out these cowboys, I shall be very pleased.


P.S. For the sceptics, I rent out of choice and have no plans to buy.

StevieJ

I think what the monkey meant to say was as soon as these BTL cowboys are shaken out of the system, the more houses will be on the market, therefore prices will collapse and he can then afford to buy one Apologies if that if that not your subtext Mac.

drc

macaque wrote: »

I speak as a long term renter and my concerns are as follows:

1. On two occassions, landlords have assured me that they were looking for rental periods of 3 years plus only to sell the house after 12 months. One did not even have the courtesy to tell us they were selling. I have a family which means moving house is expensive and very disruptive.

2. One amateur BTL rented us a house where many of the basic amenities were in very poor condition. He became very upset when we asked for essential repairs even though we were paying a high rent.

3. Some amateur BTLs have no idea about the basic rules. On several occassions I have had landlords access my home without my permission. One even let himself into the property whilst we were having dinner.

4. The tenant looks to the landlord for stability. Although I have not experienced it personally, I read on these forums about landlords with serious personality problems or financial problems.

If new CGT rules shake out these cowboys, I shall be very pleased.

The problem with a lot of LL's (but by no means all) is they want to have their proverbial cake and eat it. They want to be able to charge high rents, check on the property at their own convenience and do little to no repairs yet they expect the tenants to not complain if anything breaks down or wait ages to have it fixed, let them into the property at any inconvenient hour and god forbid if their rent is even one day late.

We have had a real mixed bag of lanlords. Some of them very good and very friendly. Our current LL are the type who want to up the rent even when rent is falling and expect the flat to look like a showroom at all times so that if they ever show potential buyers around, our clutter wouldn't stop them from selling.