Being charged for change of address - what a liberty

lisyloo

As you said before, you have never worked for an insurance company.

Quite right I have no bias either FOR or AGAINST.
However it blatantly obvious to me that if you want some work done then you need staff.
Please tell me how it gets done if you don't pay staff???

Or are you categorically stating that every single insurer in the UK can accomodate this with any spare capacity they have????

lisyloo

Has anyone asked the insurance companies to give a written breakdown of their costs and a justification of them in the same way 1000's of people have done with the bank charges?

Well Davey they don't have to.
It's already been considered and there are already guidelines on the amount.

As it happens I think they could very EASILY justify it.
By adding in s/w and hardware costs for - backups, security, data protection act etc. for the changes required.
I DO work in software engineering.
On the staff side you have to include a propertion of - income tax, NI, training, sickness, pension, liability insurance, health & safety, fire extinguishers, toilets, kitchens etc.
All the things lots of people TAKE FOR GRANTED these days when saying someone JUST has to PUSH A BUTTON.

I have no vested interest either way, just being objetive about what is obvious to me.

dunstonh

Has anyone asked the insurance companies to give a written breakdown of their costs and a justification of them in the same way 1000's of people have done with the bank charges?

What would that achieve? There is no requirement for them to justify it

Plus, it did not work with bank charges did it.

I would be interested in the insurance industries response to such a formal request for information and how much i suspect it may look like the indignant replies we had from the financial institutions a couple of years ago.

I would guess that they will say its commercial information that you are not entitled to or something along those lines.

I think it reasonable to assume that if it costs a Bank £2 to send a letter and make adjustments to your information on file then it would cost a similar amount to a car insurance company.

I disagree. Bank will be cheaper as they are not sitting on the phone for 10-20 minutes

lisyloo

Clearly some of us disagree here about whether it's morally right.
But the fact is is quite legal and withing guidelines, so there is nothing you can do about it EXCEPT do you research UP FRONT and find a contract that is to your liking.
This is what you should be doing ANYWAY with ANY financial contract.
I knwo we can't all anticipate every single possible thijng, but something like charges for changes is pretty obvious to check for IMO.

davey001

What would that achieve? There is no requirement for them to justify it

Plus, it did not work with bank charges did it.

Like the MP's expenses row? There was no requirement for MPs to disclose that information and if nobody had asked about it we would still be in the dark as to just how much MPs regard us mortals as mere cattle.

Yes the Bank charges OFT case failed but the Courts didn't say they were fair. Just that the OFT had no remit to decide that for themselves. The whole affair opened our eyes to the disdain at which the Banks regard their customers and the profits they made from charges which were (as they had previously stated) not only for covering their 'costs' but to line their pockets at our expense.


I would guess that they will say its commercial information that you are not entitled to or something along those lines.

Yes you are probably right there unfortunately.


I disagree. Bank will be cheaper as they are not sitting on the phone for 10-20 minutes.

Changing your policy details can be done online without the need to take up the time of a human being. Even if you tied up a call centre staff member for 10-20 minutes i doubt that equates to a cost to the company of £30 (or in some cases i noticed £40-£50.)

I also doubt insurance companys pay their staff the kind of wages to justify £50 for a 5 minute conversation.

dunstonh

Changing your policy details can be done online without the need to take up the time of a human being. Even if you tied up a call centre staff member for 10-20 minutes i doubt that equates to a cost to the company of £30 (or in some cases i noticed £40-£50.)

The charge is flat but the calls they get can be 5 minute calls or 20 minute calls. So, they have to average it out.

Remember that with insurance you are talking about a higher regulated product than banking. Insurance companies have multiple layers of supervisors who listen in on calls made, trainers, actuaries, IT staff, compliance staff etc. I seem to recall one insurer saying that there are five support staff for everyone front line member of staff.

You wouldnt believe the amount of cost that goes into administration and compliance.

I also doubt insurance companys pay their staff the kind of wages to justify £50 for a 5 minute conversation.

Of course they dont but then they dont make £50 on a £50 charge either.

The old way of not charging explicitly but including it in the annual premium where no-one saw it was worse. Its better to pay £30 every 3 or so years to make a change than it is to pay an extra £25 a year to cover those that dont make changes.

lisyloo

the profits they made from charges which were (as they had previously stated) not only for covering their 'costs' but to line their pockets at our expense.

AND????

Banks are businesses whose main aim is to make money FOR their shareholders.
That should not be news to anyone.

Do you have any suggestions for any system that works better than capitalism?
If you lived in a communist state you'd be queuing up for bread not moaning about car insurance charges.

davey001

I recall during the banking crisis President Bush going on air to tell everyone that Capitalism was still the best system for everyone.. even though it was on the verge of collapse.

Always when things get tough financially the ones that are first to loudly state how well off we actually should feel are the ones with the Armani suits, private helicopters and country estates.

I do recall queues.. long ones. It was people queuing up to get their money out of Northern Rock

lisyloo

I do recall queues.. long ones

Come off it.
Not a comaprison with queueing for basic food stuffs.

I recall it too.
I recall the hilarity when a staff member came out and said
"Does any one want to make a deposit?" :rotfl:

I don't have a private helipcopter although I did have a hot air balloon once, does that count :-))

lisyloo

Seriously I personally do not think this is bourgeoise capitalist pigs making a fortune.

This is a case of premiums being squeezed really hard in a market where often the selling factor is INITIAL price.
So it's now turned into a "ryanair" type of business model where you pay a minimum for the basic product but pay a fee for any extra services.

In the same way as it's fair for those that carry luggage to pay for the service, it's also fair for those that want to change address to pay for the service.

If you were paying for it at both ends I would tend to agree with you, but the fact is that premiums have been stripped down to the bone to win the "serach engine" contest and now you have to pay for extras.
Morally I think it's right that those that pay, take responsibiilty for the costs.

I don't believe there is any evidence for insurer taking huge profits, in fact I think you would find otherwise if you checked the amount of money they actually make.