Con-Lib agreement on a £10k personal allowance for income tax?

mbga9pgf

ninky wrote: »

if you count trafficked people there definitely is.

I agree. But thats a crime issue and not a political funding issue. Its also so small it hardly counts. I agree though with the sentiment that something needs to be done and the punishments... harsh.

lemonjelly

mbga9pgf wrote: »

There is no such thing as poverty in the UK

I would venture to say that I meet at least 1 person a day who is in poverty.

In other jobs it has been worse.

I feel that anyone who believes there is no such thing as poverty in the UK is deluding themselves. There ought not be poverty in the UK. Unfortunately, owing to the greed of some, poverty does exist.

mbga9pgf

LJ, what do you class as poverty?

lemonjelly

mbga9pgf wrote: »

LJ, what do you class as poverty?

A fair question, & one that is difficult to answer. The usual definition of poverty is those with earnings below 60% of the national average (though extremely high earners are excluded).

I'm not sure this fits.

Fuel poverty usually relates to a household spending 30%+ of its income on fuel costs.

An obvious comeback to most definitions is comparison to another country, such as street gangs in India who have little other than their clothes.

I tend to view poverty as a person who is significantly worse off than the majority of people of a similar age & ability within that society.

In example, I saw 2 twins today who have, with their mother fled a violent situation. They will be rehoused in social housing, though are in a refuge currently. They walked out with £3.something between them. Not time for bank cards etc. That'll be all they have for some time (good work of charities excepted). Temporary poverty, but poverty nonetheless.

zygurat789

nicko33 wrote: »

What about just oranges, on their own, without extra processing and packaging?

When did you last notice the price of an orange?

ALIBOBSY

It depends on a definition of povety I suppose. I don't consider anyone in this country to be truly in poverty. To me poverty is like those in (mostly third world) countries where there is a real possibility of starvation, where children are working rather than going to school. There have been numerous programmes showing the working conditions/life conditions around industries like the coffee trade, cocoa trade etc. It is immoral that countire are growing flowers and luxury items for a pittance for us in the "first world" whilst others in those countries starve. Crazy world.

I would concede that someone who is completely homeless and has nothing in this country is in a bad way and may slip through the cracks in the system, but that is as much to do with them turning their backs on the system as the system itself. Everone can claim a benefit and a roof over their heads.

Now I am not saying it is nice to aim for something higher than that, but that sort of socialism has created the current country we live in where everyone thinks they deserve something for nothing and everyone woes are someon else fault not their own.

ali x

The problem is the numbers really Jelly, if all those who really can work were forced to people like the lady you dealt with could have resouces targeted at them.

zygurat789

mbga9pgf wrote: »

LJ, what do you class as poverty?

Poverty is a relative term so people who live in poverty here would seem to be rich if you live in sub-saharan Africa.
It is usually the poorest 10%.

ALIBOBSY

zygurat789 wrote: »

When did you last notice the price of an orange?

My local farm shop usually does them for around 15p each and Aldi and the like do a bag for around 50p?

ali x

lemonjelly

ALIBOBSY wrote: »

It depends on a definition of povety I suppose. I don't consider anyone in this country to be truly in poverty. To me poverty is like those in (mostly third world) countries where there is a real possibility of starvation, where children are working rather than going to school. There have been numerous programmes showing the working conditions/life conditions around industries like the coffee trade, cocoa trade etc. It is immoral that countire are growing flowers and luxury items for a pittance for us in the "first world" whilst others in those countries starve. Crazy world.

I agree to an extent. Difficulty with this is the arguement sways towards "it's all a bit relative..."

I would concede that someone who is completely homeless and has nothing in this country is in a bad way and may slip through the cracks in the system, but that is as much to do with them turning their backs on the system as the system itself. Everone can claim a benefit and a roof over their heads.

Not quite with you on this one. All welfare benefits have rules & regulations. If you don't meet those rules, then you don't qualify. I see many cases where people don't qualify for benefits in one form or another.

Further, the majority who slip through the net don't choose to. They are let down by the system. I recall a case I worked on with an elderly war pensioner. For some reason, he was in his 70's, yet had never claimed his war pension, or even his state pension. He was a very clever but eccentric person. He got by doing odd jobs for locals. When the credit crunch started, people had less money to afford to pay him to do odd jobs. So he had no money. He got caught stealing from a local shop. Police called me in. Managed to get him off being charged, pointing out he had no malice, but was stealing to feed himself.

Now I am not saying it is nice to aim for something higher than that, but that sort of socialism has created the current country we live in where everyone thinks they deserve something for nothing and everyone woes are someon else fault not their own.

ali x

In addition to the above comments, think about the perception. An obvious example is a child who's parent(s) can't afford a PC/internet, or the latest trainers, or fashionable clothes, or school trips. They haven't been on a holiday for years. They exist on hand me downs & charity shop stuff. They live week to week. If the washing machine breaks down, it means something else has to be foregone to get another one.

Would that child (or even that parent) feel positively well off comparing themselves to someone fronm a third world country? I don't think so. I think they'll feel they have more in common with that person, or even feel worse off.

" If I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor! "

lemonjelly

ALIBOBSY wrote: »

The problem is the numbers really Jelly, if all those who really can work were forced to people like the lady you dealt with could have resouces targeted at them.

Ali, was responding to original post. I agree with the above except the word highlighted.

I agree with the sentiment though. If everyone who could work did, & was compelled to work, then we'd all benefit.