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Is Gordon Brown an economic illiterate?
Comments
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Gordon is a genuis compared to Norman help my mates in the city Lamont.
Up a percent,up a percent,up a percent,up a percent,up a percent,up a percent,up a percent,up a percent. all in one day!!!
Shaking and sweating infront of No 11 and withdrawing from the ERM.
Thats how clever the Tories are.
Do you really want that kind of farce again.Hi, we’ve had to remove your signature. If you’re not sure why please read the forum rules or email the forum team if you’re still unsure - MSE ForumTeam0 -
funny enough i can already picture Cameron's bestest friend Osborne doing the same thing and wrecking the economy and any potential growth we could have had.Gordon is a genuis compared to Norman help my mates in the city Lamont.
Up a percent,up a percent,up a percent,up a percent,up a percent,up a percent,up a percent,up a percent. all in one day!!!
Shaking and sweating infront of No 11 and withdrawing from the ERM.
Thats how clever the Tories are.
Do you really want that kind of farce again.0 -
funny enough i can already picture Cameron's bestest friend Osborne doing the same thing and wrecking the economy and any potential growth we could have had.
There is no point in having 0.1 growth when you borrow and print money worth 10% of GDP (as Gordon did over the last years). Every company will go sooner or later bust with such an ROI and so will the UK soonish.0 -
so what do you think raising interest rates to 15% will do?There is no point in having 0.1 growth when you borrow and print money worth 10% of GDP (as Gordon did over the last years). Every company will go sooner or later bust with such an ROI and so will the UK soonish.
provide the UK with 12% growth per year???0 -
Gordon is a genuis compared to Norman help my mates in the city Lamont.
Up a percent,up a percent,up a percent,up a percent,up a percent,up a percent,up a percent,up a percent. all in one day!!!
Shaking and sweating infront of No 11 and withdrawing from the ERM.
Thats how clever the Tories are.
Do you really want that kind of farce again.
This farce would have happened if Labour had won the 1992 election as they were completely in favour of the ERM, more so then the Tories. Having a fixed exchange rate has always been the root cause of UK stop-go, boom and bust because it leads to a run on the pound followed by a devaluation.
The 1992 devaluation was a public humiliation for the government because of how it happened. Today sterling has lost 30% of its value but because there wasn't a single big event, like Black Wednesday, the government hasn't suffered the same public humiliation. The fact is that this is the worst sterling crisis since the war, worse than the Labour governments of the 1960's and 1970's.
This government is drip-feeding us a nice sedative, again politically motivated, so that it can blame an in-coming conservative government when the country tips back into recession after the tough decisions have been made.
The legacy of this government we will see in 5 to 10 years time. Higher inflation, higher interest rates, real terms cuts in pay, static rises in public sector pay, possible debt crisis, balance of payments problems.
The "recession" is far from over. Several more years of trying to catch up with the growth that was fuelled by debt. 100's of billions of credit and housing equity has been spent over the last ten years representing a huge % of GDP growth over that time. How can we talk about growth when that overhangs every household?0 -
funny enough i can already picture Cameron's bestest friend Osborne doing the same thing and wrecking the economy and any potential growth we could have had.
Chucky for somebody who attacked me a week or so ago as a Conservative ramper, you do seem utterly disconnected from the real world yourself. I have no problem with the idea that different people have different views, and so some people are wrong without being malicious - but you continue with your vapid ad hominem attacks.
Out of curiosity, what do you think of the Economist backing the Conservatives. This is the broadly europhile Economist, that is looking for a liberal party, and supported Labour ever since (including 1992). Their argument is that despite their preference for a liberal party (and implicitly, for a europhile one) they are supporting the Conservatives for economic reasons. Similarly the Financial Times.
Obviously, you, and Mr Brown, might be right and they might be wrong. But I'm wondering whether you have something more robust than ad hominem attacks against these newspapers?0 -
very weak attempt to score forum points Nicky baby, very weak attempt.Chucky for somebody who attacked me a week or so ago as a Conservative ramper, you do seem utterly disconnected from the real world yourself. I have no problem with the idea that different people have different views, and so some people are wrong without being malicious - but you continue with your vapid ad hominem attacks.
you should stick to ramping up your Tory votes, which you're tryint to doing again here...
you sound like some one who is very much hurt about me critisising Mr Osborne.
does the mocking of his friendship with David Cameron really bother you that much...
it seems like it does... poor you... you'll get over it...
did you read the right post???Obviously, you, and Mr Brown, might be right and they might be wrong. But I'm wondering whether you have something more robust than ad hominem attacks against these newspapers?
it seems like you didn't and you're trying to preach and defend your inbred tory mantra.
btw i never did mock the economist - just the Cameron/Osborne relationship and also Osborne ineptness.
where did i mock the economist Nicky poos?0 -
Answering the main thread, the problem is that the economists haven't yet been able to find the grand unifying theory. So there are lots of conflicting ones.
Let's imagine that economics 101 says that there is a limited amount of resources, and what you give with one hand you must take with the other. Or that what you spend in one year you must repay eventually. Roughly what Margaret Thatcher was referring to with her analogy to household economics. You might also subscribe to classical investment models, and so on. If that's the case, then you're likely to think that Gordon Brown has indeed made a horlicks of it all.
Let's imagine, on the other hand, you think that economics 101 is fundamentally different - as some intelligent people do, for instance - from recollection - Sir Humphrey has poured scorn on anyone who believes the above. Then you might well think that running a deficit isn't a problem. To be honest, I don't understand this perspective on economics, so I'm not sure what it would and wouldn't excuse - but you get the picture. Probably one of the more memorable instances of this was when Brown referred to post neo-classical endogenous growth theory in a speech. This was (humorously) commented on by Michel Heseltine as being the product of his then special adviser Ed Balls showing off, by saying "It's not Brown, it's balls". I was studying economics at Oxford at the time, and we - including my tutor - had no idea of what sort of economic theory this was. Even neo-classical endogenous growth theory (let alone "post" n-c-e-g) is only a theory, not a proven.
So basically it depends on who you listen to. There are people whose economic theories are so appealing, in their economic alchemy, that politicians will grab them. That doesn't necessarily make the politicians economically illiterate - some of these theories are very academic. But they are very seductive, and sometimes very dangerous. In some ways its a bit like the bankers coming up with new investment vehicles; they're so attractive, until reality comes crashing in. I've made the point before, Thatcher made a similar mistake with the poll tax - the economists said it was the best mechanism to avoid fraud, reduce costs of managing it, etc, etc.
In simple terms - one guy says "you can't have your cake and eat it". The second guy says "oh yes, with us you can". Unless you know that the second guy is talking twaddle, and worse, might leave you starving after you've feasted, it's pretty tempting to go with the second.0 -
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very weak attempt to score forum points Nicky baby, very weak attempt.
you should stick to ramping up your Tory votes, which you're tryint to doing again here...
you sound like some one who is very much hurt about me critisising Mr Osborne.
does the mocking of his friendship with David Cameron really bother you that much...
it seems like it does... poor you... you'll get over it...
did you read the right post???
it seems like you didn't and you're trying to preach and defend your inbred tory mantra.
"Inbred". Nice.
Oh, what an adult post.btw i never did mock the economist - just the Cameron/Osborne relationship and also Osborne ineptness.
where did i mock the economist Nicky poos?
I was asking you to respond to the support for Conservatives from the Economist, and Financial Times, given that you seem to think that the Conservatives will doom the economy. I am wondering how you will dispense with that, as I assumed you wouldn't resort to ad-hominem attacks against them - as you do Cameron, Osborne, and now me.
Go on, just for once, answer the substantive point.0
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