MCB tripping at Fruit Machine startup

uberalles

Good morning all

I am after some advice please.

In our utility room I have a fruit machine which runs off the mains electricity. On the same circuit in the room are a fridge, washing machine, tumble dryer, I mention these just to give an idea of what appliances run fine.

When I start the fruit machine up, apparently it has a greater surge when booting, it trips the main switch on the MCB, the switch that turns of the electricity supply to all appliances in the house, the switch in the centre of the consumer unit that has the 'Test' button facility next to it.
The lights on the fruit machine show for about barely a second then it trips and the switch needs flicking back to it's original state.

So, my question is what can I have done to the electrics to ensure the machine can power up and function properly?

The shop where I bought it from did mention previously that it requires a 32amp fuse at startup and this may be the best solution, to ask an electrician to change a fuse ampage or to put the machine on it's own unique feed to the unit. If this work is required, what would be an average cost? I'm based in the Peak District.

But is this the only option? Are there any devices that run between the machine plug, and the wall socket, that can lower the ampage requirement and allow it to boot. Or is this defeating the element and requirement of safety?

I'd be very grateful for any suggestions and information, many thanks.

Jonesya

uberalles wrote: »

When I start the fruit machine up, apparently it has a greater surge when booting, it trips the main switch on the MCB, the switch that turns of the electricity supply to all appliances in the house, the switch in the centre of the consumer unit that has the 'Test' button facility next to it.
The lights on the fruit machine show for about barely a second then it trips and the switch needs flicking back to it's original state.

The fruit machine is tripping the switch which has the test button facility? Does the switch have any markings - RCD or RCBO ?

From what you have written it sounds like the fruit machine is tripping the RCD and not an MCB, the RCD only detects current flowing to earth and the fact that it is operating would suggest the fruit machine may have developed an earth fault and could be dangerous.

I would unplug the fruit machine and before using it again have someone competent check it over to make sure it is safe.

ormus

try the machine on the cooker circuit and see if it works ok. if it does then you know the solution.
cost will be in the region of 100/200 quid, depending on distance from the consumer unit.

zax47

If the device tripping has a test button then it's an RCD, NOT an MCB. It's detecting a fault somewhere and thus tripping. The fruit machine has a fault creating an inbalance between the current flowing in the live and neutral - usually as a result of a fault to earth allowing more current to flow in that part of the circuit.

Suggest you get the fruit machine PAT tested, that will check for live/earth and neutral/earth faults. Also do the obvious stuff and check the connections in the plug. If the neutral is loose/disconnected then that will trip the RCD too. If it was a live/neutral short then the MCB (overcurrent device) would trip, not the RCD, as there would be a huge short circuit current but it would be the same in live and neutral.

BTW, whoever sold it to you is talking cobblers - if it needed a 32A supply then it wouldn't be fitted with a normal BS1363 13A plug!!

uberalles

Jonesya wrote: »

The fruit machine is tripping the switch which has the test button facility? Does the switch have any markings - RCD or RCBO ?

From what you have written it sounds like the fruit machine is tripping the RCD and not an MCB, the RCD only detects current flowing to earth and the fact that it is operating would suggest the fruit machine may have developed an earth fault and could be dangerous.

I would unplug the fruit machine and before using it again have someone competent check it over to make sure it is safe.

Thank you Jonesya. I did wonder if the machine was at fault although it has done the same thing from when I got it, out of it's guarantee with the seller at site, although that is no pointer to it's safety, or not.
Once it has got through it's startup stage, it is fine and functions fine.

The

ormus wrote: »

try the machine on the cooker circuit and see if it works ok. if it does then you know the solution.
cost will be in the region of 100/200 quid, depending on distance from the consumer unit.

Thanks ormus.
Good idea, I just need to know which circuit has the cooker on now. I guess I can do this by switching off each of the consumer unit switches until the cooker no longer has power, I am afraid they are labelled incorrectly. The cooker power lead goes straight to the consumer unit, ie no socket.
But, does that mean the same circuit will have sockets? If so, will that be a case again of seeing what socket no longer has power to it when the cooker fuse switch in the consumer unit is switched down?

This is a picture of the consumer unit, half of it anyhow, the switch I refer to that trips is on the far right.



Thanks again.

uberalles

zax47 wrote: »

If the device tripping has a test button then it's an RCD, NOT an MCB. It's detecting a fault somewhere and thus tripping. The fruit machine has a fault creating an inbalance between the current flowing in the live and neutral - usually as a result of a fault to earth allowing more current to flow in that part of the circuit.

Suggest you get the fruit machine PAT tested, that will check for live/earth and neutral/earth faults. Also do the obvious stuff and check the connections in the plug. If the neutral is loose/disconnected then that will trip the RCD too. If it was a live/neutral short then the MCB (overcurrent device) would trip, not the RCD, as there would be a huge short circuit current but it would be the same in live and neutral.

cheers zax47.
I just posted again then read your post.

I have looked at the plug before and it looks fine but I think I may have a similar power supply on other devices with the same ampage that I can try as a replacement.

Thinking further about the problem, I did have a tv and a video on top of the machine and the telly now does the exact same thing. Powers on for about a second then nothing. I took both off of the fruit machine when the tv fault developed, it still occurs.
I put this down to the tv being 25 years old but maybe, could it have had current passed through the video casing to the tv then shorted it.
Not sure really, I'm not much good with electrics, but thought it best to mention it.

Thanks again.

zax47

RCCB is same as RCD. Residual Current Circuit Breaker or Residual Current Device. That is protecting all the circuits to the left of it.

Was TV plugged into same wall socket as the fruit machine? Suggest you turn power off and check the connections to the socket, one may well be loose. Other devices tripping via the same socket suggests socket faulty, not devices.

Thanks for the photo. Which cowboys installed that Consumer Unit? - ALL the light circuits should be on B6 (6A) breaker NOT 32A, !!!!!!! That's well beyond the current rating of the connecting cable (1 or 1.5mm) and breaks ALL the rules - it protects NOTHING!! Any over current situation will cause the cable to melt well before the breaker trips! House fire anyone??

FOR YOUR CONTINUED SAFETY Breakers 9,10, 12 & 13 should be replaced with B6 (6A), or at most B10 (10A) if they are heavily loaded (>1200W of lighting on that circuit and ONLY if wired in 1.5mm, not 1mm). Only number 11 should be B32 (32A) as it is protecting a ring final circuit ("ring main"). Find a COMPETENT electrician to do this here;

http://www.competentperson.co.uk

'Kin cowboys! Can we get a photo of the other half of the consumer unit please?

ormus

thats the RCD, so its more likely to be a fault on the actual fruit machine, not an overload.

macman

zax47 wrote: »

RCCB is same as RCD. Residual Current Circuit Breaker or Residual Current Device. That is protecting all the circuits to the left of it.

Was TV plugged into same wall socket as the fruit machine? Suggest you turn power off and check the connections to the socket, one may well be loose. Other devices tripping via the same socket suggests socket faulty, not devices.

Thanks for the photo. Which cowboys installed that Consumer Unit? - ALL the light circuits should be on B6 (6A) breaker NOT 32A, !!!!!!! That's well beyond the current rating of the connecting cable (1 or 1.5mm) and breaks ALL the rules - it protects NOTHING!! Any over current situation will cause the cable to melt well before the breaker trips! House fire anyone??

FOR YOUR CONTINUED SAFETY Breakers 9,10, 12 & 13 should be replaced with B6 (6A), or at most B10 (10A) if they are heavily loaded (>1200W of lighting on that circuit and ONLY if wired in 1.5mm, not 1mm). Only number 11 should be B32 (32A) as it is protecting a ring final circuit ("ring main"). Find a COMPETENT electrician to do this here;

http://www.competentperson.co.uk

'Kin cowboys! Can we get a photo of the other half of the consumer unit please?

The other complication here is that the OP said earlier 'I'm afraid the circuits are incorrectly labelled' (if you know that, why not do something about it?-disaster waiting to happen).
So no way of knowing whether the 4 'lighting' circuits fitted with 32A breakers are actually lighting circuits at all.
Perhaps the OP can confirm how they know the labelling is incorrect-as well as post a pic of the other side of the CU?

zax47

macman wrote: »

The other complication here is that the OP said earlier 'I'm afraid the circuits are incorrectly labelled' .......................

Perhaps the OP can confirm how they know the labelling is incorrect-as well as post a pic of the other side of the CU?

D'oh! Well spotted! Could well not be lighting then. :mad:

When split-load boards were being first installed under 16th Edition, only rings had to have RCD protection, lights were generally on the none RCD side. We definitely need a pic of the other half of that CU.

uberalles

Hello again.

I will take another photo of the other side and post it.

The reason I know they are incorrectly labelled, although not sure about all of them, is that when one of the spotlight bulb blows, eg in the bedroom, the switch labelled 'lights basement' switch, for example, will trip. That is beside the fact that we don't have a basement.

But you are right, I should check each and label them again. I have thought of it but never got around to it.

The tv was plugged into the same socket as the fruit machine so it could be the socket as suggested.

Just off to get the picture of the other side. Thanks again.