Alliance & Leicester the most dishonest bank ever?

Greenstuff_2

Hi,

I wanted to issue a warning to anyone dealing with Alliance & Leicester.

I had a direct debits due to go out which I didnt have enough to cover so I paid in funds cash, I checked my account and they were all paid no problem.

I was then issued with a bank charge for going overdrawn, and when I checked the debits & credits had been swapped round so it appeared I was overdrawn.

I phoned to complain and asked for the charge to be returned and they put the phone down on me!

They continued to add charges until it was a whopping £396, I went through the complaints procedure but they closed the account then without my knowledge put a default notice on my account which they refuse to remove (I have paid the charges in full to stop them getting any worse).

I am in the process of complaining to the ombudsman but my perfect credit score is ruined, its cost me a fortune so far as I normally card tart (I previously had a '1' in 6 years :A ) I also run a small business so rely on short term credit as an essential part of cash flow.

I also have a business account with them, I paid in a cheque last week that is not cleared (normally it shows after 3 days) when I phoned them up they say they now take 7 days to clear?!?!

Again the person I spoke to was rude - oh and they charge 10p per minute for phone calls.

Just a warning, they dont play by the rules, dont get caught out like I did, I have responsibly run bank accounts for decades, I've never come across such a dishonest and bad service...

dunstonh

I was then issued with a bank charge for going overdrawn, and when I checked the debits & credits had been swapped round so it appeared I was overdrawn.

They didnt swap them around. The banks use the standard accountacy method for showing debits and credits.

However, in your case the problem was that you were overdrawn at the point of opening and incurred charges. You should have paid the money in before the payments were requested. Not on the same day.

I also have a business account with them, I paid in a cheque last week that is not cleared (normally it shows after 3 days) when I phoned them up they say they now take 7 days to clear?!?!

They may have been willing to let you draw against uncleared funds previously. However, with your recent unauthorised overdraft, they appear to be only letting you draw against cleared funds now.

Just a warning, they dont play by the rules, dont get caught out like I did, I have responsibly run bank accounts for decades, I've never come across such a dishonest and bad service...

They did play by the rules. You didn't comply with their T&C and appear to misunderstand how and when payments are debited/credited. That doesn't excuse them being rude though.

Premier_2

Greenstuff wrote: »

...
I had a direct debits due to go out which I didnt have enough to cover so I paid in funds cash, I checked my account and they were all paid no problem.

I was then issued with a bank charge for going overdrawn, and when I checked the debits & credits had been swapped round so it appeared I was overdrawn...

Just a warning, they dont play by the rules,...

As dunstonh rightly says, it appears it is you that don't know the rules

24.2.2 We require one clear Working Day before We will allow the cash payment to be used to make a direct debit, standing order, bill or cheque payment.

bombardier

As dunstonh rightly says, it appears it is you that don't know the rules

Quote:
"24.2.2 We require one clear Working Day before We will allow the cash payment to be used to make a direct debit, standing order, bill or cheque payment."

For me, it's not right that banks can fall back on T&Cs. Where is the justification for a working day to allow cash to be used in your account? Once you pay it into the branch and they have it in their hands then there is no reason on this earth why it should not get applied to your account straight away, just as if you take cash out of a cash machine and then check your account it will show as a debit straight away.

They didnt swap them around. The banks use the standard accountacy method for showing debits and credits.

If the OP's experience is similar to mine, then they are not lying. I also bank with A&L and had the same thing. A&L's interpretation of chronology is at odds with the definition of the word. I too have experienced credits and debits being literally swapped in chronological order from one statement to the next, including summaries shown online. How is anyone supposed to run an account responsibly if the information presented to them changes from one day to the next.

Trying to reconcile an A&L account based on a mini-statement, funds actually available and an end of month statement is nigh on impossible, especially where cheques are in use.

Also, A&L charge £35.00 for an unpaid item. That is extortionate, and certainly not representative of any costs they may have to bear.

When it comes to phoning them I also agree with the OP - they are the rudest bunch of call centre staff I have ever come across, and I've used a lot of banks in my time.

I've got a considerable amount of money flowing through my account, and they're about to lose it to another bank. I for one am fed up with them.

One final point:

Quote:
"I also have a business account with them, I paid in a cheque last week that is not cleared (normally it shows after 3 days) when I phoned them up they say they now take 7 days to clear?!?!"
They may have been willing to let you draw against uncleared funds previously. However, with your recent unauthorised overdraft, they appear to be only letting you draw against cleared funds now.

You obviously didn't read the OP's post properly before you replied. The first part clearly applies to an account other than the business one they mention above as they have said 'also have a business account with them'. You are so quick to defend the banks that you'll gloss over the fact that they seem to have moved the goalposts on the cheque issue. Something I can testify to as I am looking at two different A&L statements right now that show different clearing times for cheques. I suggest you validate your information before posting to criticise someone else. I wonder if you are even an A&L customer?

Greenstuff, I suggest you vote with your feet and take any accounts you have with A&L away from them, as I am. They'll be sorry when people stop putting up with it. Good luck!

natweststaffmember

bombardier wrote: »

For me, it's not right that banks can fall back on T&Cs. Where is the justification for a working day to allow cash to be used in your account? Once you pay it into the branch and they have it in their hands then there is no reason on this earth why it should not get applied to your account straight away, just as if you take cash out of a cash machine and then check your account it will show as a debit straight away.
I do agree with you and I don't know if Alliance and Leicester have a way to override an unpaid decision. I know other banks do have that facility but it would only be up to a certain time as BACS returns would have a cut off point.

If the OP's experience is similar to mine, then they are not lying. I also bank with A&L and had the same thing. A&L's interpretation of chronology is at odds with the definition of the word. I too have experienced credits and debits being literally swapped in chronological order from one statement to the next, including summaries shown online. How is anyone supposed to run an account responsibly if the information presented to them changes from one day to the next.
The way is keeping track of it without the bank and making sure that all payments have cleared through the account. Not saying that the bank is right cos they aren't but I am throwing up a solution which means you know yourself how much is in the account and how much you can spend.
Trying to reconcile an A&L account based on a mini-statement, funds actually available and an end of month statement is nigh on impossible, especially where cheques are in use.

Also, A&L charge £35.00 for an unpaid item. That is extortionate, and certainly not representative of any costs they may have to bear.
Unfortunately, any argument based on excessive charges or level of charges is no longer a valid argument
When it comes to phoning them I also agree with the OP - they are the rudest bunch of call centre staff I have ever come across, and I've used a lot of banks in my time.

I've got a considerable amount of money flowing through my account, and they're about to lose it to another bank. I for one am fed up with them.

One final point:

You obviously didn't read the OP's post properly before you replied. The first part clearly applies to an account other than the business one they mention above as they have said 'also have a business account with them'. You are so quick to defend the banks that you'll gloss over the fact that they seem to have moved the goalposts on the cheque issue. Something I can testify to as I am looking at two different A&L statements right now that show different clearing times for cheques. I suggest you validate your information before posting to criticise someone else. I wonder if you are even an A&L customer?
Cheque clearing times post November 2009 is 2-4-6 ie, after 2 days you get interest, after 4 days you can use the funds and after 6 days it is cleared for fate.
Greenstuff, I suggest you vote with your feet and take any accounts you have with A&L away from them, as I am. They'll be sorry when people stop putting up with it. Good luck!

There are ways to have control on your own money and each to their own but the banks aren't right all the time.

natweststaffmember

Greenstuff wrote: »

Hi,

I wanted to issue a warning to anyone dealing with Alliance & Leicester.

I had a direct debits due to go out which I didnt have enough to cover so I paid in funds cash, I checked my account and they were all paid no problem.

I was then issued with a bank charge for going overdrawn, and when I checked the debits & credits had been swapped round so it appeared I was overdrawn.

I phoned to complain and asked for the charge to be returned and they put the phone down on me!
Did you write to them?
They continued to add charges until it was a whopping £396, I went through the complaints procedure but they closed the account then without my knowledge put a default notice on my account which they refuse to remove (I have paid the charges in full to stop them getting any worse).
What did they say with regards to the conclusion to the complaint? Do you have the wording of it?
I am in the process of complaining to the ombudsman but my perfect credit score is ruined, its cost me a fortune so far as I normally card tart (I previously had a '1' in 6 years :A ) I also run a small business so rely on short term credit as an essential part of cash flow.

I also have a business account with them, I paid in a cheque last week that is not cleared (normally it shows after 3 days) when I phoned them up they say they now take 7 days to clear?!?!
That is the 2-4-6 process that has been in since November 2008. You can use the funds after 4 days but the cheque can be returned up to the 6th working day after it has been paid in, ie pay it in on the Monday then it's the following Wednesday in which the cheque is cleared for fate
Again the person I spoke to was rude - oh and they charge 10p per minute for phone calls.

Just a warning, they dont play by the rules, dont get caught out like I did, I have responsibly run bank accounts for decades, I've never come across such a dishonest and bad service...

I don't know if A&L can reverse unpaid responses when cash is being paid in. Can I ask if you asked them at the time whether the cash should cover the payments going out?

dunstonh

For me, it's not right that banks can fall back on T&Cs. Where is the justification for a working day to allow cash to be used in your account?

The automated payments show on the system before the staff get into work. They will look at these in the morning and have a list of people who are "potentially" overdrawn.

The person who makes the decision can decide to wait until a certain point in the day to see if money turns up but that is not always possible. On a Wednesday, the potential overdrawns list can be bigger than the rest of the week put together for example. What happens if they pay in at a different branch? What happens if they pay in at 3pm when the cut off to make the decision is midday?

I have done the account manager role in the past and you would often run a check later in the day to see if money had arrived but it is never going to be foolproof and you are running a risk if you pay in the same day. This is why the banks tell you to pay in the day before.

Also, as we increasingly move towards real time banking, the option to pay in later in the same day won't be available.

Once you pay it into the branch and they have it in their hands then there is no reason on this earth why it should not get applied to your account straight away

So the debits are coming off before 9am. The counter transactions may or may not appear straight away due to processing but one this is sure. They are not going to be done before the direct debits. And as I said, the decision to bounce or charge may be at midday and the OP may not pay in until 3pm. How long do you want them to wait for?

If the OP's experience is similar to mine, then they are not lying. I also bank with A&L and had the same thing. A&L's interpretation of chronology is at odds with the definition of the word. I too have experienced credits and debits being literally swapped in chronological order from one statement to the next, including summaries shown online. How is anyone supposed to run an account responsibly if the information presented to them changes from one day to the next.

The "potential" or "forecast" balance showing transactions going through that day (or next working day at weekends will often change as its work in progress. If you had a automated credit going in on Monday morning and withdrew it later that day, the order would not show in time. However, you would not be charged in that case as the money was clearly in before the withdrawal.

You are so quick to defend the banks that you'll gloss over the fact that they seem to have moved the goalposts on the cheque issue.

I dont defend the banks. Unlike many here, I dont automatically assume that everything a bank does is wrong. They make plenty of errors, the products they offer are often low quality and expensive and the service is generally very poor. However, that doesnt mean they should be criticised in areas where they have done no wrong.

looking at two different A&L statements right now that show different clearing times for cheques. I suggest you validate your information before posting to criticise someone else. I wonder if you are even an A&L customer?

I wouldnt touch A&L with a bargepole. However, it doesnt matter if I bank with them or not. These things are generally universal. There is a difference in timescale between a cheque actually clearing and it being made available for funds (as NWSM posts above).

The bank is not there to control your finances. They often have little quirks and it pays to be aware of these so you dont fall foul. Relying on mini-statements and especially forecast balances is not the way to run your finances.

Premier_2

bombardier wrote: »

For me, it's not right that banks can fall back on T&Cs. ...

:huh:

So you'd prefer they operated on terms and conditions that were not set out from the outset??? What sort of contract would that be???

davidgmmafan

"Also, A&L charge £35.00 for an unpaid item. That is extortionate, and certainly not representative of any costs they may have to bear.
Unfortunately, any argument based on excessive charges or level of charges is no longer a valid argument"

This is true, the law does not support this argument, but then the saying the law is an !!! is quite old...

I agree this chain events is not pleasent given that you weren't expecting it but most banks operate in this way. I believe there are one or two accounts (LLoyds maybe, and Halifax I believe???) where if you pay in before the end of the working day there is no charge. Might be worth looking at them if this happens often.

Regarding the order I've not been charged because of this but I did have to phone A & L once to check as my wages went in, and I drew cash out but it did show in reverse order on the statement. Was a little worrying, but they said not to worry and there was no charge, didn't explain why it happened though.

I would add that the cash machine showed the balance with the credit, so I can see how this would be confusing. As others suggest the answer is not to trust the banks and keept your own records. You will notice if you do this that some savings accounts don't start giving interest until the cheque clears. A clever trick IMO, but not good for the customer.