Forensic investigation for contents claim

Kryspina

Dear All

please advice.
I had a fire in the house where the possible cause (as per fire brigade)was an overheated lamp in the fish tank. The fish tank is burned down and there are damages to the bedroom.

I had a visit from a contents assessor (Rainbow), loss adjuster (Cunningham & Lindsey, that is also a claim handler) and now C&L appointed a forensic investigator on the basis of them being appointed 'to review the potential recovery aspect and investigate the possiblity of recovering their (insurer) outlay from the manufacturers/suppliers of the fish tank.

Is it the standard procedure? The fish tank was worth about £260 and additional demaged goods maybe £600 but from what I have learned on this forum the forensic investigator (Burgoynes)is paid £1500 for the report.

I associate the word forensic with a fraud.
I am a professional always in line with ethics and have nothing to hide but the thought of being investigated in case of suspected fraudulent claim does not make me feel very well.

What should I expect from the visit of forensic inspector, please advice or share your experience.

Thank you very much for help

huckster

No direct experience of this.

But Insurers are experiencing financial difficulties at the moment with a high volume and increasing value of claims. So if there is chance of a recovery, they will look into.

dacouch

I've had dealings with Forensic Investigators appointed by Insurers for fires.

They are nothing like CSI and are quite geeky scientists but are no doubt very highly qualified and well paid.

They will look into the area of the fire and try to work out the cause of the fire and write a full report for the Insurers (They normally won't let you know the contents of the report).

Insurers tend to use forensic scientists on fires to ascertain the cause of the fire and / or work out if it was caused by an electrical item. If it was caused by an electrical item the report can assist the Insurers in recovery their outlay for your claim and the forensic scientists fee from the manufacturer.

They normally won't be questioning you, just questions probably questions about the fish tank eg how long you have owned it and where you bought it.

I would not worry about it as they are good at their job and should be able to get to the bottom of it.

Bear in mind they normally take about a week to sort out their report and get it to the Insurers, the Insurers normally won't pay out on your claim until they have seen the report.

mattymoo

I would expect that Burgoynes will remove the fish tank and all its associated equipment back to their lab for testing and disection there.

Kryspina

Thank you very much for your quick responses.

I think I have even encouraged my claim handlers to seek repayment from the producer of faulty good by asking them if it is possible.

I was only suprised that the insurer pays so much for this kind of report, but I assume they can claim back not only the value of the fish tank or lights fiitings but the whole amount paid to me.

Dacouch, could you please advice if the claim handler should make the loss adjuster's report available to me on request? (also the contents assessement report).

Thank you very much again
Kryspina

dacouch

The report is generally the property of the Insurer as they have paid for it, it is very unlikely the Insurer or the FS will allow you to see it.

If your friendly to the FS eg cups of tea and tell them how interesting their job must be etc etc they will often give tell you things off the record.

They very rarely commit themselves at the incident site as they like to gather evidence (Mostly taking lots of pictures) and then go back to the office to write up their report. But they will often tell you what they suspect.

(They are normally grateful to have friendly customers as a lot of the incidents they look into the customers are hostile to them).

They often have interesting stories as tomorrow may be your fish tank the next day may be a multi million pound factory that was burnt down by the owner. They won't tell you the full details but will give sketchy details. I've had a quite a few fires from my clients (Had one myself as well). I've seen really serious fires where the fire brigade investigators will not go into the burnt out building to find the cause due to H&S. The FS will normally go in though and do their investigations

You may also pick up some good advice from them about reducing the risks of future fires as they obviously are the experts.

Electrical fires are one of the most common causes of fires, if it's a minor fire they should be able to work out the cause of the fire very easily.

If your Insurers can recover prove the fish tank supplier / manufacturer are liable and recover their outlay it should also mean you can recover your excess from them

Oscar_The_Grouch

There is no accusation against you. The insurance company are merely acting to protect your and their rights of recovery.

Insurance companies have the funds and expertise to handle cases like this, where Joe Public doesn't. Let's tell you a little story about Joe Public:

Joe has insurance with a company called Wibble. Joe's house is damaged by fire and Wibble appoint a firm of loss adjusters called LA & Co. LA arrange for Joe to stay in a hotel for a few days, as he can't live in the house. They also appoint CleanMe to get rid of anything damaged by flames or smoke and Foren to carry out forensic investigations to confirm the cause of the fire.

Foren soon tie the cause of the fire down to a faulty TV that was only 5 months old. They take the TV off and arrange to check it out fully in their labs, documenting everything they find.

In the meantime, Joe is moved from the hotel in to a nice rented house and given some money to buy clothes and a new laptop. Joe is an accountant who works from home and he needs to get back to work.

LA and CleanMe work together to get the house habitable again and to get Joe's undamaged bits and bobs back to him. Joe has worked extra hours to get the data back that he lost because of the fire, so is pleased to get back home.

6 months later, Joe receives a letter from Bloggs & Co Solicitors. It confirms that they are acting on behalf of Wibble against the TV manufacturers, as they think they have a good case against them - if the TV hadn't been faulty, the fire would not have happened. Bloggs & Co ask Joe if he suffered any losses that were not part of his claim to the insurer, as they would be happy to take the case on under their "no win no fee" agreement along side the insurer claim.

Joe has a think for a while and suddenly remembers all the extra hours he had to work to get his records back up to date for his clients, the lost music and video files from his home PC that were not covered by the insurance, the loss of Mr Meow; his cat who died in the fire and the fact that he ended up on tablets from his GP because of the stress of it all. Joe remembers the geeky bloke coming round to the house when he was there to take the TV away and how it had seemed strange at the time. Suddenly he's very glad that Foren were involved in the claim!!

The end.

Sometimes I think I should have gone on to be an author.......

Then I read something like this and remember why I went into insurance!!

Kryspina

I really appreciate your help. I am less scare of FS and will try to be helpful as much as possible.

Dacouch, thank you! I am aware that I am not going to have a look into FS report. I was asking about the report prepared by the C&L loss adjuster that will be the base for my building insurance claim after the fire (walls, ceilings, water and fire damage) and I assume the base for assessing my builders quote by insurer

Best Regards

Oscar_The_Grouch

A loss adjuster's preliminary report is not anything to write home about. It serves a few functions for the insurance company:

1. Reserving
All insurers have to hold funds back to cover the cost of claims. When the loss adjuster sends in his report, he will tell the insurer what he believes will be the most likely cost (in round numbers) of the claim. It's only a preliminary figure, so its accuracy is dependent on the ability of the adjuster and their past experience. It is not "set in stone", but it does allow the insurance company to quickly set aside funds.

2. Confirm details
The loss adjuster will confirm basic details, such as who lives in the property, what their occupations are, the number of bedrooms and such. This is to make sure that the insurance company have the correct details on their system. Many a fraud has been caught becase there was a minor discrepancy in the details that lead to a deeper investigation.

3. Confirm sums insured
Where a policy is based on "sums insured" rather than "number of bedrooms", the loss adjuster will provide the insurer with a rebuilding cost of the property and confirm whether the contents cover is adequate.

4. Give details of the incident
The loss adjuster writes a statement of how the claim appears to have happened. This is important for fire claims (where the fire started) and theft claims (how they got in) as it can help with future underwriting (following a break-in you may be required to improve locks) or in your case, making a claim against someone else for the damage.

5. What happens next
The adjuster will inform the insurer of what they have done and what they intend to do, so that the insurer can approve it or come up with their own suggestions.

There will be nothing in a preliminary report that would be of interest (or use) to the policyholder and as it's paid for by the insurer, they "own" it.

Later on in the claim, someone will have to create a "shedule of repairs". THIS is the document you want to see, as it is the list of what builders are going to be asked to do. I'd be tempted to tell CL that you want to see the schedule before it is passed out to tender (given to builders to quote on) and it may be best to see if you can arrange to meet the adjuster on site with the schedule to make sure everything has been included. This should be fairly standard for a large fire claim, so the adjuster has no reason to turn you down.

If you have your own builder, feel free to ask that they be included in the tender process (get a chance to quote too). CL are there to make sure the costs are reasonable so if your builder comes in with the best quote, he'll get the gig!!

Kryspina

Thank you All very much for help.
I feel much better prepared for tomorrow's FS visit.

Fingers crossed I will soon forget I had any fire (but no more fish tanks:):)

Kryspina