Two architects' wildly varying build costs

patricia1066

Hi I am trying to understand how two architects could arrive at these figures, which is for a single storey extension built to a good standard with no structural complexity in Bromley, SE London.

One, who wont take on such a small value project believes it will cost £1600 sq. m. at 30 sq. m. That comes to £48000
The other believes it will cost between sq. m cost is £150 yet his estimate is £60 - £70k, and he wants a fixed fee of £9,000 excluding standard disbursements plus vat. Alternatively working to stage of obtaining planning permission £3,000.
If build did cost less than £50k then thats 20% of the build cost.
What questions should I ask him?
He promised drawings but his letter says that the drawings will confirm the contract, so we need to make a decision on very little info.
He has done several extensions and if I ask for clients references he isnt going to give me those with complaints.

OddjobKIA

£150 squre meter is a joke.......
£1600 square meter is a bit high for here (But I LIVE IN WALES £1000-1200) so prob fine for london....

try a firm that does it all such as 01159445080

Unit 1/Clarendon Court/Manners Av
Ilkeston, DE7 8EF

richardw

If they can't describe in detail what you are getting for your money then walk away.

Andy_L

Is the £150 is a typo & it should be £1500?

patricia1066

Its £1,500 per sq. m I suppose not £150, I get confused between quotes in sq. Ft and sq. m.
Resurrection Builders - in Yorkshire! Well I had a laugh.

lfc321

Andy_L wrote: »

Is the £150 is a typo & it should be £1500?

That's my guess:

32 m2 @ £1500 = 48000
Architects fee = 9000
VAT = 9975

TOTAL £66975 + disbursements

dander

I wonder if architects price a bit like builders - ie if they don't particularly want a job they whack the price up. £9k seems a hell of a lot for a few drawings. Or are you needing a lot of design in the project, even though it's structurally simple.

I suspect the post above is bang on though, the first quote probably doesn't include VAT and although those prices are steep, you're going to be paying London prices on everything.

Doozergirl

Have you spoken to builders? A single storey extension is not hard to project manage for a builder and they can price for you.

We pay £700-800 to our architect for drawings and she puts in the planning forms for us as well. And that is her involvement. Building Control is dealt with on Building Notice so no drawings but regular inspections.

I can't see the value that an architect could add to project managing a single storey extension. The £1500-1600 a metre would include all your builder's costs.

I think you're setting your sights on architects that are too big for a modest project. Have a look in the yellow pages for an 'architectural technician'

patricia1066

@Doozergirl
Thats interesting re project management. It will be a relatively straightforward job for a builder, once the detailed plans are agreed. I'll try to get the fees down to £2,000 plus VAT for planning permission. Do you give your architects work such that they give you a discount? Does the structural work get indicated by your architect or does the Building Control advise you?

The pricing of architect's fees is radically different to CIAT members, who are prepared to draw a design for planning for £250. Architects wont try to match that. The best I can do is to select based on the design and push them to lower the fee to prepare for planning permission.

The issue is what is the best value. We have already had one structural surveyor prepare detailed plans (because we felt we knew what we wanted) and the plans were not pleasing to the eye, and were rejected by planning.

We live in a unique coach house, which has a multitude of lovely features. Its not going to be enhanced by a chalet stuck on its side. Though the right modernist design might cause me to reconsider, I'd prefer something that leaned gracefully on the original structure.

We want to convince the planners that the house needs a front and side extension to improve the way it sits in the environment and the CIAT members I have spoken to haven't given any hope of getting this for us.

The cost of the architect is a relatively early chunk of money so it wont seem as large once the builders are engaged. I suppose part of the problem with cost of the build is that one architect has a scheme with bricks and a little glass; another may be planning something that needs lots of money spent on it.
Maybe its too early to ask that question, as the plans arent drawn yet.

iamcornholio

Why are you using Architects for a standard, simple extension? Architects will charge you much more than you need to be paying, for no added value. You should just use a a technician, surveyor or suchlike.

The guy who wants £9k for a £60-70k job is asking way too much in any case. You might expect a fee of 10% of the project costs. And having said that you would not expect the project costs to be inflated for the purpose of inflating the fee.

TBH, for a single story extension I would expect a fee for drawings (for both planning and b/regs) to be no more than £1500. You would then have the standard council fees and any structural engineers fees, and possible Party Wall Surveyor fees

IMO, you are being ripped off with those fees quoted

Designers will come to differing cost estimates because, they either use prices from a standard price book, or use estimated m2 rates. Both of which are wildly inaccurate. In addition, as they are not doing the building, they have no idea of what a builder will factor in for his costs, overheads or profit - which will vary from builder to builder.

You are better off getting a rough estimate from a builder, by giving him some outline dimensions. The builder is bound to have done something similar and will give a rough estimate ..... now, this may well be to the nearest £10k, but that will still be more accurate than the Architects estimate

Doozergirl

Our architect fees haven't changed since we first used her. She specialises in 'cottage' and lives in a cute village - so if I were looking for an architect to design me something sympathetic, I'd try to find one like her that surrounds themselves physically with all things Period - so I'd look into Kent rather than into London from where you are.

Building Control will always help advise on what they want to see (they can't help themselves) but we use a structural engineer to design any RSJs properly.

How you do 'sympathetic' when you're going across the front of a period property will be hard. It's a bunch of total randoms on a Planning Committee from what I've seen - you can't please all of them.