Split ticketing - but train was cancelled - how to claim?

far

On Saturday I bought split (off-peak) return tickets from York to Birmingham New Street - specifically for the 3 legs of York to Sheffield, Sheffield to Derby and then Derby to Birmingham New Street. The journey to Birmingham was fine but I had planned on returning on the 19.30 but this was cancelled. There was an alternative 20.03 service too but this was cancelled so I had to leave on the 20.30. My question is, how can I best claim compensation in this instance? There were no trains between Birmingham and Derby after 19.30 apart from the 20.30 so no question of compensation in this instance but could Cross Country (whose website I booked tickets from) argue that since there were trains between Derby to Sheffield and Sheffield to York between the one I had planned to return on and the one I boarded from Birmingham that I am entitled to no compensation for this leg of the journey? Any advice?

Mids_Costcutter

I'd claim for the entire Birmingham to York journey: the lack of a Birmingham Derby service prevented you from catching services on the subsequent legs. What does the refund policy on Cross Country's web site say about this? Different train operating companies seem to have different rules.

far

Mids_Costcutter wrote: »

I'd claim for the entire Birmingham to York journey: the lack of a Birmingham Derby service prevented you from catching services on the subsequent legs. What does the refund policy on Cross Country's web site say about this? Different train operating companies seem to have different rules.

Basically, it's 25% of the cost of a return ticket for journeys delayed between 30 and 59 minutes and 50% of the cost of a return ticket for journeys delayed between 60 and 119 minutes. In my case, I arrived at York at 22.42 instead of 21.48 so this was a delay of 55 minutes.

dmg24

far wrote: »

Basically, it's 25% of the cost of a return ticket for journeys delayed between 30 and 59 minutes and 50% of the cost of a return ticket for journeys delayed between 60 and 119 minutes. In my case, I arrived at York at 22.42 instead of 21.48 so this was a delay of 55 minutes.

Did you travel with Cross Country? If so the above is not correct (although it may amount to the same thing). You are entitled to:

50% of the cost of your single ticket or 50% of the cost of either portion of your return ticket for delays of between 30 and 59 minutes;

I agree that you can claim for the first train, but as your other tickets were booked separately you may have a problem claiming for the other two.

MarkyMarkD

This is a cost of split ticketing which, IMHO, Martin doesn't refer to but should.

If you have tickets which only cover you for specific trains, it's your own problem if you don't get to the station on time - even if that is due to the delay on another train.

Whereas if you book a single ticket straight through, it's the train operators' joint problem.

This is exactly the same as flight tickets - if you book an Easyjet flight from (say) Glasgow to Luton and then a charter flight from Luton to Lanzarote, it's not Easyjet's loss if you miss the Luton to Lanzarote flight and nor is it the charter operator's - you needed to provide additional time for the risk of delay.

Furthermore, booking straight through can mean that you get more compensation.

E.g. I took a train from Edinburgh to somewhere near London. The Edinburgh to London train was delayed 40 minutes, but that meant I missed 2 local trains which run every 30 minutes, and got home an hour later. Because my end arrival time was an hour late, I got a full refund, compared to the 50% refund I was entitled to for a 40 minute delay.

With split ticketing, I'd just have got the 50% and just of the delayed leg - i.e. a big pile less.

Mids_Costcutter

I think that you're still entitled to some refund on all of your unused tickets, possibly subject to an admin. fee. This must be applied for within 28 days after expiry of the ticket's validity, which is still the case at the moment. For more information see the National Rail Conditions of Carriage (pp.10-11):

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/NRCOC.pdf

dmg24

Mids_Costcutter wrote: »

I think that you're still entitled to some refund on all of your unused tickets, possibly subject to an admin. fee. This must be applied for within 28 days after expiry of the ticket's validity, which is still the case at the moment. For more information see the National Rail Conditions of Carriage (pp.10-11):

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/NRCOC.pdf

Can you point out the relevant text, because I cannot see anything that would support your viewpoint.

wealdroam

Mids_Costcutter wrote: »

I think that you're still entitled to some refund on all of your unused tickets, possibly subject to an admin. fee. This must be applied for within 28 days after expiry of the ticket's validity, which is still the case at the moment. For more information see the National Rail Conditions of Carriage (pp.10-11):

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/misc/NRCOC.pdf

dmg24 wrote: »

Can you point out the relevant text, because I cannot see anything that would support your viewpoint.

I can see why Mids_Costcutter could arrive at that conclusion.

In the National Rail Conditions of Carriage, Section C paragraph 19 states...

19. Using a combination of tickets
You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they cover the entire journey and one of the following applies: <etc, etc>

This implies that the whole trip, covered by two more tickets, can be considered one journey.

If we then look at Section E paragraph 26...

26. Refunds on tickets that have not been used.
If you decide not to use a ticket (other than a Season Ticket - see Condition 36) to make all or part of your intended journey, then:
(a) if the train you intended to use is cancelled, delayed or your reservation will not
be honoured, you decide not to travel and at that time you return the unused
ticket to any ticket office, the Train Company responsible for that ticket office will,
if it is in a position to do so, give you an immediate full refund as shown in
Condition 27. <etc, etc>

It talks here about all or part of your intended journey.

Seems to imply that all tickets that make up the journey will be refunded if the first train is cancelled.

I agree it isn't spelt out exactly, but there appears to be a good case for arguement.

dmg24

I saw para 26, but it refers to refunds for unused tickets, not compensation for delays. The OP did use the tickets, but wishes to claim for a (slight) delay.

MarkyMarkD

And that wording says that if the train you decide NOT to use is delayed, cancelled etc., you can get a refund. Not that if you miss a train because of a delay on ANOTHER train, you can get a refund.

Mids_Costcutter

Thanks dmg24 for pointing out that the original question was about compensation for delay not for refund of unused tickets, and sorry for not reading carefully enough!

Paragraph 42 of NRCOC (pp.15-16) covers compensation for delays, but doesn't seem to be specific about the separate tickets for one journey issue. Personally I would submit all 3 tickets covering the Birmingham York journey when making my claim and see what happens.