'Should we starve the jobless back to work?' poll discussion

alan8253

The JSA benefit does need changing but coming up with an arbitary figure regardless of people's very different outgoings is NEVER going to solve it. The DWP need to take note of your bills and pay you accordingly. As for the unemployed doing some work to earn their benefit, I don't think most unemployed people would have a problem with that, and those who do really are workshy and ought to be penalised accordingly. Sounds like a good idea to me (and yes I am unemployed).

WhyIsSavingSoHard

It's not that easy to find work. My brother-in-law is trying to find a job nearer to home rather than have a 2hr round trip, but can't find one over a year later. Another relative has qualifications I've never even heard of and has letters after his name, but now he's finished studying after an extra 10 years of college and Uni, he can't find anything either. Even cleaning jobs are hard to get around here.

I do agree that seeing people on benefits having countless takeaways, smoking, going down the pub, to nightclubs and wearing the latest gear is ridiculous. How they manage all that I've yet to work out. I'm on benefits and have a home to keep. There's only me and after paying my bills I have just enough left to get basic food. No fancy labels or takeaways in this house.

Some people seem more than happy to sign-on forever and that should be stopped or they should have to give something back to the local community by means of compulsory volunteer type work.

MarzipanFish

alan8253 wrote: »

Are people nuts? You can't live on £50 a week! Have a look at your bills, add them up, then come up with a realistic figure. Food costs £20-30, do people really believe you can pay all the other bills with the rest? It doesn't even come close.

bills:
7 internet
14 line rental / landline calls
25 gas
35 electric
food/toiletries/cleaning stuff etc:
60 tesco grocery order
70 fresh/top up shopping
TOTAL £211 per month

the food bit includes the occasional takeaway/pub lunch/bottled beer/day out at i guess £15-20 per month.
That's for 2 of us. Obviously it wouldnt halve for 1 person though.

So I am one of those who think rent + council tax + £50 is definitely reasonable for long term unemployed.


However, i do realise that it would be a massive wrench for someone used to living on a normal wage, with a larger flat/house to heat, a car etc.
I'd prefer a system that gives a larger allowance for the first 6-12 months of being unemployed for people that had worked in the past. Maybe £120 for 6 months, £80 for 6 and then £50 but i have no idea how feasable that would be.
I'm a bit torn between making a system based on peoples actual outgoings and thinking it would be best to simplify to save on administration costs and hopefully reduce people taking advantage.
In theory i would cap the extra money provided by having more kids, but in reality it would probably just result in kids living in worse circumstances rather than less kids/less wasted money on cigarettes/expensive goods.


Alan, i'm sorry if i'm being out of line here but having to borrow money of a friend just to survive seems like a pretty bad situation. Are you on a cheap gas & electric tariff? I'm paying £15 less a month having moved mine and also got £23 cashback. Moving both to scottish power gets £130 from quidco.
Also theres a lot of info on these boards about cutting expenditure like 50p a meal challenges.

meher

MSE_Lawrence wrote: »

What would you say is roughly the right benefit to give an able single person seeking work? We'll assume rent is £50/week to reduce regional variance.

The answer would be the same if you were to ask yourself* how much you could manage with at a very basic level and I don't think I'd agree with those who voted for any lesser than £300 a week. If you don't eat or live decently, it affects your immune system, you get unwell and become a burden to the state. Not to mention you cannot claim this to be a welfare state if someone leads an inadequate life, nevermind the reasons. I think in addition two things should be considered if we expect people to go to work. First, to offer houses at low rent to those who receive low wages. Second, to not just switch off benefits overnight, instead benefits to be phased out gently whilst they become self-sufficient. So any anxieties of change in their financial status would be addressed and there would be the incentive to pick themselves up and actually go to work.

* you meant to be rhetorical btw, not thee :A

BigMummaF

The trouble with anything like Benefits, is one size does NOT fit all

Whilst doing my stint as a Saturday girl I was shunted between three branches of the supermarket, all within three miles of each other & all with different prices for their staples like eggs & butter & I believe that still goes on today.

Regional variation plays a major factor in whether a person, couple or family can survive on the magical X amount. For example, my closest A$da is a good 50min car journey both ways, Ald! & Pr!marni a bit more & Eyekia even further. No hint of H0me B@rgains or F@rm F00d & farm shops & markets are nothing more than outside shopping centres :mad:
My cousin oop norf used to get a complete uniform at the start of the senior school then a choice of three items every year after, including raincoat, blazer & shoes. Down here, it was £35 every other year during senior school. She had the markets in Leeds & Sheffield to help the money go further while I had Woolies & QS.
My aunt bought a vacuum cleaner from the Lekkie board up there, then while visiting my parents spotted the exact same model in our lekkie shop but at £40 more on the price tag :eek:

So please folks, have a little consideration for those of us who have to live in a stock-brokers paradise but manage on a scivvy's money...

nordtraveller

why not should shoot all us jobless while your at it.

put us out of our misery!

tinktinktinkerbell

nordtraveller wrote: »

why not should shoot all us jobless while your at it.

put us out of our misery!

because maybe not all of us are miserable sods like you

ariarnia

MarzipanFish wrote: »

So I am one of those who think rent + council tax + £50 is definitely reasonable for long term unemployed.

I would completely agree if they made it rent - rather than some towards rent which is the situatation with LHA - I'm in Rhondda CT atm and because some areas of this county are destitute with very cheap housing and some area's are more normal, the LHA is £46-65 per week Single or joint occupacy but Rhondda boarders Cardiff so where I am commuting to Cardiff (much cheaper than living in Cardiff even with the difference in LHA rates).

I could move to a cheaper part of rhondda, but my chances of ever being able to move off benifit then are being dramatically reduced should I do so.

I'm currently in the cheapest flat in this village, the only set of flats availible to rent in fact, and they don't come on to the market often. It's fine atm as I'm in work, but no chance I can stay in this area after my contract ends. LHA is just about half my rent. (and I'm over 25 ftr)

shonarose

I believe that benefits should never pay more than being in work, and agree with those who suggest that the unemployed should perform part-time community work for all the good reasons given.

However, having never claimed benefits, one thing I really don't understand ... how come for some people benefits are barely enough to live on, yet for others it is apparently enough to finance a life of luxury, with "foreign holidays, widescreen tvs, computers, cars, etc" ???????

Is it down to regional variations in the cost of living? Some people claiming fraudulently things they are not entitled to, or working on the side as well? Or is the "luxury benefit lifestyle" a bit of a myth? Can someone please explain?

ariarnia

It depends drastically on the cost of living/outgoings and individual circs.

In some area's it's possible to find a flat - shared or not, that comes under the cost of LHA for that area. when this happens you can keep the excess. I've never lived or looked at living in an area where I would be able to do that therefore any excess comes out of the basic JSA payment.

When you become unemployed from work it's a sharp cut down to £65 ish a week. If you have signed contracts with months remaining for internet/tv licence/phone/car payments/whatever there is no extra support and so all of these payments have to be bugeted for out of basic jsa. In the same way, any servicing of debts is not taken into account, but if you're owed money by someone else, that is.

For some reason JSA for the under 25's assumes shared accomodation and/or parental support - shared accomodation isn't possible in some areas, near cardiff some flats are more expensive shared as they're in the city center/near campus, and a self contained flat can work out cheaper if it's in the outskirts (shared flat's in the outskirts go really quickly and seemed to be passed from one group of students to another who make the introductions to the landlord/agency. If you rent self contained when you're only eligable for shared you don't get the LHA (I didn't think this was the case, but according to the woman I spoke to - it's not the case in Rhondda as i already checked anticipating unemployment in september)

Aslo, for some people parental support is not a possibilty. At this point people are told blithly to move to an area where they can then - ignoring the fact that moving in and of itself is very expensive and finding a flat/housemates when you can't travel to view/sign contracts is very suspicious to agents.

Basically, If I was living in someone's house (my parents for example) and I wasn't looking for work - just on the house internet to fullfil basic criteria, I'd find it quite easy to live comfortably. According to the governmnet, if I'm with my family they shouldn't charge me anything - lol's to think about my parents accepting that one - so I'd have £50 a week to buy myself takeouts and goodies. If I was paying to travel about for prospective interviews/chats (not covered by the travel to work scheme), paying for an internet account, water rates, electricity, rent on yp's LHA, and so on... see figures above.