'Should we starve the jobless back to work?' poll discussion

ceridwen

baz8755 wrote: »

I think the unemployed should not get any money so that they cannot buy any luxury items such as cigarettes,booze etc. Insted they should be given food/clothing/accomodation, hopefully this would provide them with an incentive to go out and find work.

I work in a town that is full of the long term unemployed and you see many of them smoking and drinking whilst I'm on my way to work, they also seem to have filled all their free time breeding. What kind of example are these people setting for their children as soon there will be generations that will just perpuate the same lifestyle.

In that case - tackle that particular little problem at route - ie those who "breed" for an income - but its not fair to expect that those on benefit who ARENT "breeding for an income" end up penalised as well...

ceridwen

aliplaysdrums wrote: »

5. You should have to submit receipts for how you have spent your benefit money, just like the politicians, so we know people aren't buying new TV's, yachts etc with benefit money. (christmas and birthday allowances should be made)




Ali

They could try that if they like - and I will derive great satisfaction at working out a scheme to break that idea as well:D:D and promulgating it widely.

Have a nice day now...

gems2381

ceridwen wrote: »

Re the food vouchers - i was thinking further on this today and about the fact that food vouchers simply wouldnt do for me personally (or many others) because they wouldnt allow for us buying the type of food we ACTUALLY do buy (be it because of allergies/other health considerations/personal likes and dislikes/etc) and realising that if anyone expected me to have some of my money as a food voucher then I would soon be looking to set up a scheme whereby those on benefit could trade their food vouchers with those not on benefit (but who ate that way anyway) in order to get the "face value" of those vouchers in cash. This would then defeat the whole object of giving those on benefit some of their cash in the form of vouchers anyway:D. So - message to anyone in the Government that might think of this - "Dont even think of it - because I will personally set out to break that scheme - and I think I have a reasonable chance of doing so....."

It would be something that might come about as an accidental byproduct of me ensuring that I personally could swop my vouchers for equivalent cash - but it would then become quite a large scheme quite quickly anyway that a lot of people would take advantage of. I DO know this for a fact - because I've done this sort of thing before:D. Dear Government - dont assume that I wouldnt start up such a scheme - even if I personally didnt need it - I might well...

.

Which is exactly why food vouchers would need some form of ID system to stop this happening! People wouldn't object to you buying actual food with them or where you choose to buy it from. It's the money being used on things like cigs and alcohol that people object to, people have to eat......they don't need to smoke and drink alcohol.

ceridwen

gems2381 wrote: »

Which is exactly why food vouchers would need some form of ID system to stop this happening! People wouldn't object to you buying actual food with them or where you choose to buy it from. It's the money being used on things like cigs and alcohol that people object to, people have to eat......they don't need to smoke and drink alcohol.

That could be got round as well.

At a personal level - I would take someone who ate that way anyway shopping with me and pick out "their" shopping and pay with "my" food voucher and get paid equivalent money by them. Thats the first thought I would have as to how break that scheme - and I expect I would come up with a few more ways to break it with a bit of further thought.

In making comments like the above - it is necessary to bear in mind that many perfectly decent/normal/employable people can end up on benefit through no fault of their own for some time - as well as those who "breed for benefit" and a lot of us would feel duty bound (to have our conscience give us a moments peace) to find ways to break any such system.

...and no I'm not some rabid ultra left-winger - just someone with a bit of inbuilt fairness.

Techno

Ceridwen - what would you do then to stop a life on benefits being a 'career option'? The benefits system was developed as a safety net and there are many who have been very grateful for that support during times of need (myself included for a short period of time) but there are far too many others who are quite comfortable on the benefits they have and can find no incentive to look for work. The idea of vouchers (a bit like when you were given special tokens for free school meals) can be stigmatising and I am not an advocate of that. However the system is there to support those in need not those who can't be bothered

ceridwen

Stopping life on benefits being a "career option" - tell people that any children they have after they go onto benefits are theirs and theirs alone to support - there will be no extra benefit to cover them.

Back at the outset - review the system of allocating Council housing that gives preference to those with children - at the expense of those who are trying to be responsible for their own finances/accommodation provision.

I am certainly aware that there are the !!!!less in this world - and quite a few of them at that. The !!!!less come in all shapes/sizes/and degrees of being in a job or otherwise. The !!!!less also sometimes work extremely hard for very long hours - but are !!!!less in the sense that they get huge incomes for that (eg bankers - as we know).

I would love to have a "battery of ways" of dealing with !!!!less - at all levels in society - and force them into a sense of personal responsibility. The thing is though that better minds than mine have tried to work out before now how to "separate the sheep from the goats" to decide who are the responsible people who are on benefit against their will and who are the irresponsible ones who have chosen to be on benefit.

I think most of us would be glad if there was some way to differentiate between the two groups of people. Some people are extremely obvious - eg that family the other day that has 8 children and are aiming for 14 (all at our expense totally) on the one hand and those who are little better off for working but still do so anyway on the other hand. There is a huge group of "grey" in the middle - where it is sometimes rather difficult to work out which group the people concerned come in......

gems2381

ceridwen wrote: »

That could be got round as well.

At a personal level - I would take someone who ate that way anyway shopping with me and pick out "their" shopping and pay with "my" food voucher and get paid equivalent money by them. Thats the first thought I would have as to how break that scheme - and I expect I would come up with a few more ways to break it with a bit of further thought.

In making comments like the above - it is necessary to bear in mind that many perfectly decent/normal/employable people can end up on benefit through no fault of their own for some time - as well as those who "breed for benefit" and a lot of us would feel duty bound (to have our conscience give us a moments peace) to find ways to break any such system.

...and no I'm not some rabid ultra left-winger - just someone with a bit of inbuilt fairness.

My parents have a laptop with fingerprint recognition, I'd integrate that into the voucher system......yeah it won't stop everyone taking their friends shopping with them but not everyone will have such kind friends as you , or friends with jobs and access to cash!

Inbuilt fairness? Why do you think it's fair that people who work have to save up for large tvs, playstations etc while you'd be setting up a scheme to get round receipts being shown for purchases? As I mentioned in a previous post my exs mother was boasting to me one day about the £600 council loan she'd got for telling them she needed a new mattress for her disabled husband......she went and spent this on a brand new PC......how is that fair?

cw18

gems2381 wrote: »

As I mentioned in a previous post my exs mother was boasting to me one day about the £600 council loan she'd got for telling the she needed a new mattress for her disabled husband......she went and spent this on a brand new PC......how is that fair?

That's exactly the kind of thing where I think production of receipts should become mandatory. Or there could be an 'approved supplier' type list (including access to special requirement due to disability goods), where you get the loan but have to buy through them - so you never actually see the money in your bank account, but the supplier is paid directly by the benefits agencies.

adouglasmhor

ceridwen wrote: »

Stopping life on benefits being a "career option" - tell people that any children they have after they go onto benefits are theirs and theirs alone to support - there will be no extra benefit to cover them.
..

So someone like my cousin who was laid off from her job when pregnant - no benefits for her kids?

cw18

adouglasmhor wrote: »

So someone like my cousin who was laid off from her job when pregnant - no benefits for her kids?

I wouldn't exclude that pregnancy, as it was already 'a work in progress' before she became entitled to benefits.