Forming a residents association

S3quence

Hi,

I was wondering if someone could tell me the criteria for setting up a residents association. I am looking to do so as we have had some disagreements with our managing agents over them requesting additional money for redecoration in our flats which several tenants disagree with.

The managing agent has send through some information on as well as some guidance notes (this is what concerns me)

The guidance notes say:

[Said agent] follow the procedures used by the RAP and in summary include the following:

• Membership should be NO LESS than 60% of those qualifying on the estate
• Documents required to be submitted before recongnition are...Copy of RA rules or constitution and list of all members.

They have then supplied a "model constitution" which goes on to state:

• Each member must pay a fee (£1) until otherwise determined at the AGM
• The treasurer will have control of the funds (I assume in relation to the annual fee)
• Withdrawal of recognition: [said agent] assumes the right to withdraw if membership falls below 60% of lessees

My main concerns are:

1. When it says membership should be no less than 60% does this mean that they only have to pay the membership fee of £1? My main concern is that I can see most of the flats chipping in to become members but only a handful of those actually turning up to any such meetings (we have 24 flats I can see maybe 25% actively turning up for meetings and most people paying £1!!)
2. By proposing the idea of an RA am I in anyway stiching myself up financially? I am looking for a face to channel communications with the managing company but at the same time dont want to legally or financially put myself or my family in danger. I just want myself and the residents treated with respect we pay alot of money each year and on occasions get treated for mugs (for example paying £5k a yr for gardening then not having the garden grass cut!)
3. How many members do you need to form an RA? AS in people attending meetings not just paying a subscription fee? if for example 3 people turned up for the AGM and 100% of the flats paid £1 is this legit and proper?

Finally, if this was to be formed and successful. What rights do we have? Can we remove the managment agent? Can we force them to get cheaper quotes for repair work and redecoration?

Thanks for any advice I have been searching the net and some of the information is so conflicting!

S3quence

Fire_Fox

Why are you letting the managing agent supply you with a constitution?
Recognised tenants associations:
http://www.lease-advice.org/publications/documents/document.asp?item=14
Right to manage:
http://www.lease-advice.org/publications/documents/document.asp?item=21
You cannot force your landlord to go with the cheapest option unless you invoke RTM, you only have the right to insist that charges are "reasonable".
Not for profit organisation giving specific advice on how to set up a leaseholders residents association:
http://www.fpra.org.uk/

[Deleted User]

If you have the stamina, then you can all take over the freehold and do the management yourself as a group. We started with no more than 25% attending but we ended up with 80% of the whole group buying shares in our new company and we bought the freehold. Now we are in control. The info is all out there but it will take a lot of research

Your painting quote is only the start, believe me

You should do all this without any contact with your managing agent. It will take 2 or 3 at least, of good hard working owners to set the ball rolling. You start by finding out the cost of the freehold and then setting up a property owners company with companies house and you set up shares, one per property.

S3quence

kittie wrote: »

If you have the stamina, then you can all take over the freehold and do the management yourself as a group. We started with no more than 25% attending but we ended up with 80% of the whole group buying shares in our new company and we bought the freehold. Now we are in control. The info is all out there but it will take a lot of research

Your painting quote is only the start, believe me

You should do all this without any contact with your managing agent. It will take 2 or 3 at least, of good hard working owners to set the ball rolling. You start by finding out the cost of the freehold and then setting up a property owners company with companies house and you set up shares, one per property.

Sounds good but alot of work! I think I need to take it one step at a time and try and drum up some support. and am thinking that setting up the RA would be a good way to do this whilst still getting our views heard. My worry is I will take this on and then be left in the lurch to look after it myself if people lose interest.

FireFox the constitution the managing agent is a sample they have done for us. We are under no obligation to use it.

Anyone able to comment on my other questions?

[Deleted User]

yes, we did it just one step at a time and we started with an RA.

BexInLondon

Hi S3quence,

We set ours up last week so I don't have extensive knowledge but here goes.

S3quence wrote: »

Hi,
[/LIST]My main concerns are:

1. When it says membership should be no less than 60% does this mean that they only have to pay the membership fee of £1? My main concern is that I can see most of the flats chipping in to become members but only a handful of those actually turning up to any such meetings (we have 24 flats I can see maybe 25% actively turning up for meetings and most people paying £1!!)
   
   This depends on what your constitution says. Ours imposes a quorum (minimum number who have to be there for it to be valid) for the AGM, but this is something like 15 households (out of 80-odd). Other than the AGM there will be committee meetings (which any member can attend if they wish), and the quorum for that is something like 3 committee members, 2 of which must be the officers (Chair, Treasurer and Secretary).
   
2. By proposing the idea of an RA am I in anyway stiching myself up financially? I am looking for a face to channel communications with the managing company but at the same time dont want to legally or financially put myself or my family in danger. I just want myself and the residents treated with respect we pay alot of money each year and on occasions get treated for mugs (for example paying £5k a yr for gardening then not having the garden grass cut!)
   
   I can't imagine how this would stitch you up financially. Unless of course you become Treasurer then embezzle the funds! Check your constitution carefully but in all likelihood you're simply signing up to a representative body, a mouthpiece if you like! You're not taking on the freehold or anything, so you won't suddenly inherit repairing responsibilities. If you're on the committee and someone thinks you're a bit rubbish they might try and get you off the committee but that's it really. Doesn't even have to be on your CV!
   
3. How many members do you need to form an RA? AS in people attending meetings not just paying a subscription fee? if for example 3 people turned up for the AGM and 100% of the flats paid £1 is this legit and proper?
   
   Depends on your constitution. This should be crystal clear on all the above questions. If not, it's not a good constitution. It should provide for every eventuality. It needs to be clear whether membership is by flat or by person. E.g. if ten people live in one flat do they have ten votes?
   

Finally, if this was to be formed and successful. What rights do we have? Can we remove the managment agent? Can we force them to get cheaper quotes for repair work and redecoration?

My understanding is that as an RA you don't have extra 'rights', other than those given to you by the managing agents or HA (e.g. ours will allow us to apply for grants). However you do have a stronger voice, and also a way to get people to be proactive in the block.

Thanks for any advice I have been searching the net and some of the information is so conflicting!

S3quence

Are you in a housing association scheme? What kind of estate is it? Is it a mix of owners and renters from the council?

Taking over the freehold might be a sound option if you have lots of active neighbours, but as someone else said above, one step at a time! Get your RA going, and active first!

S3quence

BexInLondon wrote: »

Hi S3quence,

We set ours up last week so I don't have extensive knowledge but here goes.



Are you in a housing association scheme? What kind of estate is it? Is it a mix of owners and renters from the council?

Taking over the freehold might be a sound option if you have lots of active neighbours, but as someone else said above, one step at a time! Get your RA going, and active first!

Thanks!! there are 3 blocks of flats but one is housing association and as far as I know is exempt as they dont pay the managment fee at least their contributions dont effect our balance sheet and vice versa. THe rest at all leaseholders

S3quence

Bex the bit about the financially stiching up up I think refers to if we arrange quotations for things like decorators and then something goes wrong (eg they take the money and do a poor job, meaning we have to get someone else in) if the residents money is therefore wasted can the members of the RA be liable to incur any charges or is this the decision still of the managing agent

Sounds silly I know!

RE the embezzlement LOL the proposed member fee is £1 so there isnt alot you can do with £24

Fire_Fox

S3quence wrote: »

Bex the bit about the financially stiching up up I think refers to if we arrange quotations for things like decorators and then something goes wrong (eg they take the money and do a poor job, meaning we have to get someone else in) if the residents money is therefore wasted can the members of the RA be liable to incur any charges or is this the decision still of the managing agent

Sounds silly I know!

RE the embezzlement LOL the proposed member fee is £1 so there isnt alot you can do with £24

We set up a geographic tenants and residents group here (i.e. not specifically for leaseholders of one block) and we did not have to pay or collect subs. We did need a bank account as we applied for grants but clearly that will not affect you. I wouldn't make this any more complex than it needs to be - and it may be you do not need to get embroiled in financial stuff at all!

If you invoke the right to manage or right to collective enfranchisement you may well have to find money and later claim it back from the leaseholders, depending on the terms of your lease (service charges usually paid in advance, major works in arrears) Other than that there is no reason for you to be getting quotations unless you intend to dispute some of the charges? You will simply put the same of your chosen contractor forward and the freeholder or his agent has the legal responsibility to take that into consideration.

All this is explained on the LEASE website, and there is probably further information on the FPRA website, really you are best getting your facts from the official bodies set up to help you in just this situation.