Employment Tribunal

Yockie

yes, LOL...I thought so....

julia9134

Has anyone got any tips or experiences to share with the forum?

senwar

Just stumbled across this thread and feel a little nervous now - so after a little advice myself.

I was made redundant (voluntarily I'll add) in January. I was given figures and signed the agreement papers in December - in these papers it stated I accepted the package and would not make a further claim (or words to that effect). Anyway, the day before my final working day, it came to light that I'd been supplied the wrong terms and figures. I TUPE'd into the company in 2000 and at that time, the TUPE agreement stated the following:

Redundancy : Should redundancy be required we propose the following redundancy payments: double the statutory minimum, based on actual salary with a cap of 18 months salary. This excludes any notice period due. This will be apply for 2 years following transfer, after which a review will take place with full consultation. This will take effect from 1st December 2000.

It was brought to my attention by a works council rep that the full review never took place, and I can categorically state that consultation never took place either. The company are stating that the terms they provided are actually higher than above (they are completely misreading the statutory comment to mean statutory monetary value as opposed to statutory weeks). But then they also state the clause was only valid for 2 years.

I raised this with my company prior to leaving, and have not been given a satisfactory response - I escalated it last week and was given the same response I was given in February even though I'd gone back disagreeing with their findings. I've asked the company to provide evidence backing up that the clause is no longer valid (i.e. following consultation). I think an added issue is that the company I TUPE'd into back in 2000 have been subsequently absorbed by another company in 2008, although in this instance we didn't TUPE or have any contract changes.

As I've been unhappy with the response, I was advised to raise an Employment Tribunal case which I did on Monday, and I received a letter yesterday accepting the claim and a court date has been set.

Reading this thread, I'm worrying I've done the wrong thing? Any thoughts? We're not talking mega money here (about £5k) but part of me feels why should the company be allowed to get away with it, but another part of me doesn't want the hassle. I've no idea on costs (was advised it won't cost me, which I'm not too sure about), and just wonder what people think about my case also?

Would you proceed?

Ewarwoowar2

julia9134 wrote: »

Has anyone got any tips or experiences to share with the forum?

As an employment solicitor, I would advise the following:

1. Know you case - what are you claiming (unfair dismissal, discrimination, etc...);
2. Understand the basics behind the law. Just because you feel you have been treated unfairly doesn't mean you have a claim.
3. Be organised. Plan out your statement logically, refer to your evidence/document in the witness statement. Don't decide half way through the hearing that there are a load of e-mails you now want to put in the bundle.

danni_bab3

Ewarwoowar2 wrote: »

As an employment solicitor, I would advise the following:

1. Know you case - what are you claiming (unfair dismissal, discrimination, etc...);
2. Understand the basics behind the law. Just because you feel you have been treated unfairly doesn't mean you have a claim.
3. Be organised. Plan out your statement logically, refer to your evidence/document in the witness statement. Don't decide half way through the hearing that there are a load of e-mails you now want to put in the bundle.

hey in number 3 its saying bout not to change ur bundle and witness statement i am currently going through a case of unfair dismissal and age discrimmination and have got a solicitor but they not been very helpful to me reli but nothnig i can do but my old empolyer is lieing about verbal and written warning letters he has produced them but they fake without my signiture? will the judges see through him or is it more then likely that he could win?

Ewarwoowar2

danni_bab3 wrote: »

hey in number 3 its saying bout not to change ur bundle and witness statement i am currently going through a case of unfair dismissal and age discrimmination and have got a solicitor but they not been very helpful to me reli but nothnig i can do but my old empolyer is lieing about verbal and written warning letters he has produced them but they fake without my signiture? will the judges see through him or is it more then likely that he could win?

Tribunal judges are very good at spotting lies and fake documents. It's not hard to do.

For example, I've about 5 years of employment law experience (compared with a judge who will have over 10 and usually over 20). A few months ago a new client came in to see me about a redundancy dismissal. He pulled out a sheet of paper, neatly typed, with all the scores they had given to each of the potentially redundant employers and the notes of the meeting in which they had made the decision to dismiss. My first question to the manager was "you made these documents up after the dismissal didn't you?". He thought for a minute then admitted that he had.

Ewarwoowar2

senwar wrote: »

Just stumbled across this thread and feel a little nervous now - so after a little advice myself.

I was made redundant (voluntarily I'll add) in January. I was given figures and signed the agreement papers in December - in these papers it stated I accepted the package and would not make a further claim (or words to that effect). Anyway, the day before my final working day, it came to light that I'd been supplied the wrong terms and figures. I TUPE'd into the company in 2000 and at that time, the TUPE agreement stated the following:

It was brought to my attention by a works council rep that the full review never took place, and I can categorically state that consultation never took place either. The company are stating that the terms they provided are actually higher than above (they are completely misreading the statutory comment to mean statutory monetary value as opposed to statutory weeks). But then they also state the clause was only valid for 2 years.

I raised this with my company prior to leaving, and have not been given a satisfactory response - I escalated it last week and was given the same response I was given in February even though I'd gone back disagreeing with their findings. I've asked the company to provide evidence backing up that the clause is no longer valid (i.e. following consultation). I think an added issue is that the company I TUPE'd into back in 2000 have been subsequently absorbed by another company in 2008, although in this instance we didn't TUPE or have any contract changes.

As I've been unhappy with the response, I was advised to raise an Employment Tribunal case which I did on Monday, and I received a letter yesterday accepting the claim and a court date has been set.

Reading this thread, I'm worrying I've done the wrong thing? Any thoughts? We're not talking mega money here (about £5k) but part of me feels why should the company be allowed to get away with it, but another part of me doesn't want the hassle. I've no idea on costs (was advised it won't cost me, which I'm not too sure about), and just wonder what people think about my case also?

Would you proceed?

It would depending on the wording of the compromise agreement. You could also argue that you were fraudulently enticed to enter the agreement or some other fancy legal arguments about contract law.

My gut feeling is that is if the wording of the agreement prevents future unknown claims, the tribunal may throw out your claim because you've already settled it under the terms of the compromise agreement.

My strong advice to you is find a solicitor who will give you an hour of their time for free (a free consultation). Get a free opinion about the compromise agreement preventing the claim. The reason I advise this is that by bringing the claim you may be in breach of the compromise agreement and, potentially, have to pay some of the redundancy money back.

senwar

jdturk wrote: »

Senwar, put it in its own thread for a better response

Thanks - saying that, I think Ewarwoowar2 has given me the answer I needed (which has now scared me even more! lol).

Thanks for your reply Ewarwoowar2. I'm going to be chatting with ACAS on Tuesday as well and will see if I can get some time with a solicitor.

Cheers

mayb_2

HI Yockie - you should have been given a copy of any case management decisions taken by the Tribunal I think. I had one that stated exactly when paperwork had to be exchanged by. It is normal to have to bring your copies of bundles on the day but exchange of paperwork beforehand is another issue. You should exchange paperwork and witness statements at an agreed date and that way you both have paperwork that cannot be altered. If you send yours before receiving theirs for instance, they have the opportunity to change statements etc.

That is how it worked with my case anyway so hope that helps.

danni_bab3

Ewarwoowar2 wrote: »

Tribunal judges are very good at spotting lies and fake documents. It's not hard to do.

For example, I've about 5 years of employment law experience (compared with a judge who will have over 10 and usually over 20). A few months ago a new client came in to see me about a redundancy dismissal. He pulled out a sheet of paper, neatly typed, with all the scores they had given to each of the potentially redundant employers and the notes of the meeting in which they had made the decision to dismiss. My first question to the manager was "you made these documents up after the dismissal didn't you?". He thought for a minute then admitted that he had.

hey thanks

i do think they will see through him as he never put it in his et3 or in my dismissal letter. just hope the past year of doing all of this is going to pay off thanks