What are your questions on downloading & copying music legally?

lightwave_2

sugarcoma101 wrote: »

I have a question for you. <snip>

And I have a question for you... This forum thread is for questions to the BPI. Why are you attempting to answer them? In fact, don't answer that - can't we keep it on topic? (Don't answer that either, this whole paragraph is rhetorical)

Here's my question - If indeed it is illegal to download music from BitTorrent sites that you haven't paid for, what's the difference if you buy a CD between:

1. Ripping the CD to another device for your personal use; and
2. Downloading the same tracks from BitTorrent for personal use

If I were to digitally rip the CD myself to FLAC with no loss of quality, is that better or worse than "illegally" downloading the same track from a BitTorrent source in MP3? Bear in mind I already bought the CD, so if I plan on listening to the music from a ripped/downloaded copy without touching the CD, who cares?

jimbo49

why keep fighting progress? why not embrace it and use it to your advantage? when music was made available on 8track, the radio didn't die, it slowed. the same thing happened with cassettes, then cds, now downloads and also with movies when video players/recorders came out. the problem with the BPI attitude is they want people to still buy old formats and old types of media, but expect them to buy the new technology as well and the means of playing that new media/format. they have not lost any money, it has simply been redirected. why not make downloads available to customers from your own sites? surely it must be better to offer what is wanted, then say 'if you download from here, you're fine. if you download from anywhere else and are caught, then this is what may happen. give an alternative first, at sensible prices, not alienate the very people you rely on in the first place by threatening them.
at sugarcoma101. 99.9% of music on torrent sites is not illegal. plenty of artists release their music on torrent sites because it is the best way of getting it to the masses. bootleg tapes didn't stop the likes of Fergal Sharkey from 'making it'. they were encouraged, because that was the best way of distributing music at that time. you sound like a BPI type supporter/worker to me trying to justify what is being done, who wont accept that technology will not be defeated. adapt or fail. simple choice, really.

sugarcoma101

dawson001 wrote: »

What do you say to audiophiles who cannot find lossless audio versions of the music they want online? And it is only the pirates that provide this online?

Do you still think that MP3's will be around in 20 years time?

Is it illegal for me to burn off a CD of music I've downloaded legally and play it in my car?

What is you're view of the downloading youth? Who are heavily into music but don't have the funds for it therefore use illegal sites? Would you take their parents to court? What if their parents have no idea about computers and they don't know what their children are doing?

Not sure what you mean by not being able to find lossless audio online? MP3's are a lossy format by their very nature so do you mean WAV files?

Regarding the car question, as far as I'm aware you are permitted to make a certain number (3 or 4 I think?) of CD copies from an album downloaded legally, so no, it is not illegal as far as I know.

Regarding the youth question, all I can say is that downloading music illegally is NEVER ok and is NEVER going to be justified. If your son or daughter wanted a bag or crisps or a coke but didnt have 50P to pay for it, would you think it's fine for them to nick it from the shop?

I would hope the answer would be no!

And the parents question, it still doesnt make it ok if the kids are doing it behind parents backs. Kids do lots of things behind their parents backs which are illegal I'm sure, it still doesnt make it ok.

adouglasmhor

sugarcoma101 wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by not being able to find lossless audio online? MP3's are a lossy format by their very nature so do you mean WAV files?

Regarding the car question, as far as I'm aware you are permitted to make a certain number (3 or 4 I think?) of CD copies from an album downloaded legally, so no, it is not illegal as far as I know.

Regarding the youth question, all I can say is that downloading music illegally is NEVER ok and is NEVER going to be justified. If your son or daughter wanted a bag or crisps or a coke but didnt have 50P to pay for it, would you think it's fine for them to nick it from the shop?

I would hope the answer would be no!

And the parents question, it still doesnt make it ok if the kids are doing it behind parents backs. Kids do lots of things behind their parents backs which are illegal I'm sure, it still doesnt make it ok.

FLAC and Ogg Vorbis rather than WAV I think.

dawson001

sugarcoma101 wrote: »

What would you class as a 'reasonable price' considering from a 79P download, the artist, the songwriters, the musicians, the recording engineers, the studio time, the graphic designers, the marketing and promotions teams, the press teams, the manufacturers, the producers, the sales teams AND the retailers need to be paid for their fair work from it?

I take it someone works in the music industry.....

As an extreme example, lets take Joe McElderry - Sold over half a million records in 2009 for his first single - Lets do some maths....

99p for the single on itunes (lets round it up to a pound)

30p goes to Itunes

£350,000 gets split between -
Song Writer (Will take 10% on rights - £35,000)
Recording engineers, studio time and producers (£10,000 for a day - They only get paid on a 1 off)
The graphic designers (£10,000 for less than a days work)
Marketing and promotions teams (Already contracted to the record label and will probably only be 12th of their workload)
The rest of the people you mentions will be offshoots of this.

So the record label and artist share £295,000 - Not bad for about a months work!

Plus they gain massively from tours!

If it wasn't profitable then i'm sure a lot would have gone under...

markrd_2

If I download music from iTunes, I can then copy it omto 5 other computers. If in the future I deside I don't like it and delete it, should it be deleted from the other computers too (after all it's been legally paid for and the sharing was allowed)?

If I buy a CD and upload it to my iTunes, then surely I can then legally share it with at least 4 other computers?

If I then give that CD to a charity shop because I no longer want hardcopies of my music taking up storage space and back up the audio files am I braking the law? After all I paid for the CD.

And what about the other computers I shared the music with? Must they delete it or risk being prosecuted?

How about if various sanctioned websites are offering a free download of a track off a new album, but each is offering a different track. Can I download all of them, maybe most of the album and then give this collection to friends? Is that different from them dl-ing it themselves?

dawson001

sugarcoma101 wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by not being able to find lossless audio online? MP3's are a lossy format by their very nature so do you mean WAV files?

Regarding the car question, as far as I'm aware you are permitted to make a certain number (3 or 4 I think?) of CD copies from an album downloaded legally, so no, it is not illegal as far as I know.

Regarding the youth question, all I can say is that downloading music illegally is NEVER ok and is NEVER going to be justified. If your son or daughter wanted a bag or crisps or a coke but didnt have 50P to pay for it, would you think it's fine for them to nick it from the shop?

I would hope the answer would be no!

And the parents question, it still doesnt make it ok if the kids are doing it behind parents backs. Kids do lots of things behind their parents backs which are illegal I'm sure, it still doesnt make it ok.

About the lossless files, it would be considered FLAC or Apples Lossless MP3s - But you cannot but this in any online shops.

And your example of a chocolate bar is SO WRONG it is unbelievable - Thats theft! Downloading music illegally is breaking copyright - Completely different!

If I steal a chocolate bar, someone else is not able to have it - Theft!
If I duplicate a track it does not impeed someone else's use - Copyright!
Clear on the difference?

My issue is with the children is: If the child downloaded something illegal - the phone line is registered in the adults name - but if the adult has no idea what a bit torrent is who's fault is it?

dawson001

jamespir wrote: »

ignorance isnt an excuse

No it's not - But we should at least off the education to parents who have concerns instead of prosecuting them!

markrd_2

sugarcoma101 wrote: »

Kids do lots of things behind their parents backs which are illegal I'm sure, it still doesnt make it ok.

But if a kid nicks a chocolate bar, the parent doesn't get prosecuted.

adouglasmhor

Is it not true that most if not all prosecutions by the music industry and their enforcers have been for UPloading and not DOWNloading,ie filesharing has led to prosecuton?