Have you heard of St James's Place

Tiggs_2

Just to clear up some errors.....

Chrismaths wrote:

http://www.sjpc.co.uk/ppt/sjpc-interim-06.ppt

Have a read of this - it's the presentation they gave relating to their interim results. There are some nice touches in there - that advisers are motivated entirely by sales commissions, and have no access to ongoing servicing commission until they retire, so they are on a sales treadmill.

ALL SJP products carry trail.....in fact the goal of any SJP partner firm is to build up trail to a point where it exceeds new business income (same as a NMA!)

Also....there figures are impressive, you can moan about the way they do biz if you wish.....but they (with only 1100 partners) have company results that kick the heck out of the top 4 IFA firms combined.

lol....and just for fun they won the Financial Adviser of the year award in 2005 in the first year it was opened to non-IFA's (no wonder us IFA's hate them )

Tiggs_2

dunstonh wrote:

I have a significant trail/renewal income which would be lost.

as i'm between positions and have no work to do i'll cover a few more points;)

I will still get my IFA trail as an SJP partner, i will also get trail on any policies i assign to me when i am with SJP (and, of course, access to the clients details on those policies in the same way as i have as an IFA)....i expect my trail income from NON SJP stuff to still build up to a significant sum over the years on top of what it already is. All assisting me in running an advice focused practice

Tiggs_2

barak wrote:

They are certainly expensive. You should get some alternative advice from two or three IFAs to see what they suggest.

ok...last one (otherwise i'll sound like a recruiter ....on an investment the cost is the same as an IFA taking 3.5% + .5% trail and recommending external fund links which normally have a little extra charge attached.

you could argue all day about whether an IFA reviewing those funds is better than SJP's investment commite reviewing them but thats another story. An IFA could give up the commision to make the plan cheaper and at that stage you would have to decide whether cheaper was better in that case.

not much of an issue for me as i have never given up commision (unless the investment is 600k+) and never been asked to by a client.

interestingly, SJP prob could drop their commision as a one off......but i think they would laugh at the idea! they have plenty of advisers investing millions at a time who dont give up a penny.....not sure they would push the boat out for £150k!

EdInvestor

It's customary for people on the "advice" side of the financial services industry to reveal their status on this website - see the posts by dunstonh as an example.

Tiggs_2

why? I see no need to, i make no recommendations.

(having posted many times in tax forum i would sugest it would be more useful if people that had no idea what they are on about declared their "no better than Fred down the pub" status )

whiteflag_3

Tiggs , as an IFA who has been approached by SJP recruiters in the past , can you explain to me how you convince your clients that you moving from IFA to SJP is better for THEM?

Ive been in financial services for over 20 years and I cant come up the a compelling argument for how my clients would be better off if my company went tied.

How does the SJP investment committee differ from any multi-manager proposition (other than probably being more expensive)?.

Of course moving from IFA to tied does make churning easy within FSA regulations!


A good friend of mine (afpc qualified) was at a wedding recently and was unfortunate to be at the same table as a SJP "partner" ( note the partner is for marketing purposes only - fur coat etc etc ) . The SJP guy spent the whole wedding spurting inaccurate info about IHT and trying to get appointments with other guests- i think this sorry tale sums up the way SJP operate!

Ps Tiggs on 15 july you posted"
"any more details on this? i have a number of cases each year that exceed £10k so would be interested in the FSA's plans."
For the second time how do you justify commissions of this level to your clients?

I look forward to your response

Tiggs_2

"Tiggs , as an IFA who has been approached by SJP recruiters in the past , can you explain to me how you convince your clients that you moving from IFA to SJP is better for THEM? "

I dont need to. I have conducted various client surveys over the years and my companies "status" is NEVER scored highly by clients as a reason for their using me. They use my firm because we are local, specalist and very easy to deal with....no hard sale, its all very advice based -which in turn leads to ample profits so clients feel the process is un-rushed and we still make money.

Of course i will discuss the change with them but i would be amazed if any of them will care about my status (i dont)

"Ive been in financial services for over 20 years and I cant come up the a compelling argument for how my clients would be better off if my company went tied. "

If i ONLY cared about my clients i may not go to SJP.....but i also care about my earnings and the ease of running my business the way i want to - SJP makes my job easier, and i see no significant disadvantage to clients. I am a business man, it so happens i am also a financial adviser.

"How does the SJP investment committee differ from any multi-manager proposition (other than probably being more expensive)?."

more expensive? not on the quotes i've done. as for how it works, i dont want to use this as a pitch! suffice to say that i am happy with how my clients money will be looked after.


"Of course moving from IFA to tied does make churning easy within FSA regulations!"

Does it? i have no intention of churning anything, my IFA business will stay invested as is and i will keep getting trail on it.

"A good friend of mine (afpc qualified) was at a wedding recently and was unfortunate to be at the same table as a SJP "partner" ( note the partner is for marketing purposes only - fur coat etc etc ) . The SJP guy spent the whole wedding spurting inaccurate info about IHT and trying to get appointments with other guests- i think this sorry tale sums up the way SJP operate!"

bloke sounds an idiot......not sure how that relates to me or my firm? i am a Partner of MY FIRM...forget the SJP sales stuff.....and i hate weddings.

"For the second time how do you justify commissions of this level to your clients?"

Its all relative, £10k commision is on very, very large investmenst......i dont justify it - i explain it. If a client heard what i got paid and didnt like it they could stop the sale - never happened in 10 years and i have earnt over £50k on some cases. The flip side is i have made many millions of pounds for clients and saved millions in tax...for that i make a lot of money. I have no moral dilemas over that one! My clients are not fools, they are well off and value their money - they also have seen me pull up in the TVR and know i earn good living from what i do. In my experience commision is only a hurdle to the sale if you make it so.....i have always been open about what i'm paid and the effect it has on their funds - their priority is how my recommendations compare with their current planning, not whether they could go and find a cheaper IFA.

ps- should add.....i am only answering questions asked, this isnt a pitch!

pps- sorry, just realised you posted on the £10k commision thread some time ago and i never responded. I wasnt avoiding it, just never checked back on that thread.

hansi

In defence of SJP may I say that I have a very good friend who is a "partner" with SJP and I invested some money with him in their Managed Bonds some years ago and enjoyed a very healthy return. Ok, that was in the day of the stock market "good times" but all things are relative. I currently have a unit trust mini isa with them, which after a a few months is doing reasonably well. After all, the market is pretty volatile these days.

lilac_lady

I don't think SJP are any better or any worse than the others. Personally, I would split the £150000 into 3 lots and invest with 3 different providers. (chance would be a fine thing!)

dunstonh

I don't think SJP are any better or any worse than the others. Personally, I would split the £150000 into 3 lots and invest with 3 different providers. (chance would be a fine thing!)

SJP's pay system is like many other salesforces so you are correct in that they are no better or worse than other salesforces. Whilst this has turned into a bit of anti SJP, you could replace SJP in this thread with a most salesforces.

Personally, I would split the £150000 into 3 lots and invest with 3 different providers.

Meaning you would need to see three tied agents all of whom trying to outspin the other in attempt to get more and you end up with 3 providers who are probably not the best and with some tied providers (not SJP to be fair here) offer a cut down version of the IFA version of their product or a more expensive version.

In response to Tiggs, I would agree that the majority of my clients wouldnt care if I was tied or independent as they have dealt with me so long that it is me they look to and not the independent status. However, it is new business where I think you will lose out because the IFA status brings in people both from IFA promotions but more often from family members and friends who of people where I have discounted and provided independent advice. Those people may not have dealt with me for long so it isnt me they are recommending as such but what I do and how I do it. That side of things you would lose.