Can Tribunal Judge Overrule Former Judge Decision?

bdt1

Ok quick question, any help be greatly appreciated.

After many years of incorrect assessments, LO, CCJ, charge on house etc etc for an assessment which is total fabrication, and we have evidence to prove this, at last our Tribunal hearing has been rescheduled for next month.

But, we attended a Tribunal hearing in 2005, when PWC decided that I was 'lifestyle inconsistent with declared earnings', she lost her case, and the Tribunal judge upheld the original CSA decision in my favour.

After this in 2007 CSA made a reassessment, got Criminal Compliance involved, they copied my bank statements, included all household income as my assessable income, and also all business credits as my assessable income, and thus assessed me on this figure. CSA being CSA, they also then backdated this MA to a 2004 IMA, and said I owed 34k arrears.

The household income I have proven they should not have included is child benefit for 4 children in my household, my wife's reimbursed business expenses from her employer, CSA money to my wife from her 1st hubs for their 2 ds, and surrender of an insurance policy in my wife's name only. Of course with regard to my business, I also have tax returns, accounts and business receipts as proof all credits in the business account were not profitable income.

So my question, can the Judge at 2010 Tribunal hearing overrule the 2005 Judge decision? Suppose just concerned, as it seems to be like one big conspiracy, I have proven many times this assessment, and the associated arrears are a joke, although PWC not laughing plaguing everyone for her 34k :rotfl:. Obvioulsy the evidence has already been sent to CSA and Tribunal, but just wondered/hoped they cannot change a decision made by a former Judge then backdate it to prior the 2005 Triunal, I just cannot understand how they try and get away with this.

As said any advice greatly appreciated

kelloggs36

Is the 2005 decision being reveiwed? If not, then it won't fall into their jurisdiction.

CSA_Help

bdt1 wrote: »

Ok quick question, any help be greatly appreciated.

After many years of incorrect assessments, LO, CCJ, charge on house etc etc for an assessment which is total fabrication, and we have evidence to prove this, at last our Tribunal hearing has been rescheduled for next month.

But, we attended a Tribunal hearing in 2005, when PWC decided that I was 'lifestyle inconsistent with declared earnings', she lost her case, and the Tribunal judge upheld the original CSA decision in my favour.

After this in 2007 CSA made a reassessment, got Criminal Compliance involved, they copied my bank statements, included all household income as my assessable income, and also all business credits as my assessable income, and thus assessed me on this figure. CSA being CSA, they also then backdated this MA to a 2004 IMA, and said I owed 34k arrears.

The household income I have proven they should not have included is child benefit for 4 children in my household, my wife's reimbursed business expenses from her employer, CSA money to my wife from her 1st hubs for their 2 ds, and surrender of an insurance policy in my wife's name only. Of course with regard to my business, I also have tax returns, accounts and business receipts as proof all credits in the business account were not profitable income.

So my question, can the Judge at 2010 Tribunal hearing overrule the 2005 Judge decision? Suppose just concerned, as it seems to be like one big conspiracy, I have proven many times this assessment, and the associated arrears are a joke, although PWC not laughing plaguing everyone for her 34k :rotfl:. Obvioulsy the evidence has already been sent to CSA and Tribunal, but just wondered/hoped they cannot change a decision made by a former Judge then backdate it to prior the 2005 Triunal, I just cannot understand how they try and get away with this.

As said any advice greatly appreciated

If it already been upheld in your favour then i wouldn't see them overturning this .I believe there is a set time for it to go for a 2nd stage tribunal and 5 years seems a long time .

So i think your ex can whistle for her fabricated £34k

bdt1

Thanks for responses, in answer to Kelloggs question - no the 2005 Tribunal decision that went in my favour with regard to 'lifestyle inconsistent with declared earnings', is not under appeal, BUT

when in 2005 the Judge declared that CSA decision/assessment be upheld in my favour, in the statement of reasons that we received after the hearing several comments made by the Judge (personal comments) were quite unsavoury, and he did at one point state that I was not a credible witness.

The Judge was referring to discussion around my income, I had just started in part-time self-employed business and he was trying to calculate my projected earnings, I told him I couldn't guarantee any figure, as just in 1st few months of self-employment, he also did not like the fact that my wife and I role reversed,(she had been employed part-time, and I was employed full-time) we did so as she was offered job earning more than I ever would have earned whilst employed, but one of us needed to be part-time for care of 3 children in our household - yet he made it sound as if I left employment and started part-time self-employment to avoid hefty CSA payments. This is simply not true and my full-time employed P60, and that of my wife's show she was capable of earning far more than I had ever earned in a full-time capacity.

Sorry for being long winded, but the Judge's 'personal observation', has cast a huge shadow over my credibility. Then, again I ask, how in 2005 when Tribunal went in my favour could CSA then later in 2007 make another decision and backdate it prior to the 2005 Tribunal decision? The new MA was backdated to 2004, I would not have thought they could do this, as it was before 2005 Tribunal decision but advice greatly appreciated

Honest_broker07

The CSA can and do overturn Court orders !

so why shouldn't they overturn a judges decision.

Your reference to unsavoury comments by the judge, sorry but judges to tend to speak the truth as they see it.

My ex was told she wasn't a credible witness by the judge when she was proved to be lying in several statements, what did you do to upset the judge, but to be frank ( if this is the case ) I'm surprised you won if the judge said you weren't a credible witness as that means he would disregard most if not all of what you said

bdt1

As said thing I did to upset Judge was leave full-time employment and go part-time self-employed, at same time my wife left her part-time employment to work full-time in a job much better paid than my previous full-time employment. As he quizzed us over and over, he thought I had left full-time employment to avoid paying CSA money, he didn't like fact that I also kept stating that I was a part-time 'house husband' this was truth as there were 3 and now 4 children in my household. He accused me of probably not leaving 1 job unless I could earn same in another job, but I did prove I didn't need to as my wife was earning more then I ever had when working full-time, think he just got frustrated, as I was only part-time and also looking after my family at home whilst wife the 'bread winner' so the Judge couldn't sc*** me over for as much as PWC had hoped for. He accused me of not eing house husband at all, but I did put it to him that with 3 young children in house and wife out working full-time, who would do school pick up's and holiday cover etc???? Not even to mention when children ill??

When asked about projected earnings, I could only guarantee pennies,as with being in a self-employed manual trade, in 1st few months of trade, my van hire, indemnity insurance, advertising, tool purchases etc were proved as costing me more than I made in profit, also to add I don't think any tradesman is earning mage bucks these days with the recession, high fuel prices etc, so he got the hump with me, but I did win my case

Honest_broker07

The judge shouldn't have got upset over your earnings/lack off and employment status.

As I said before the only reason they normally say someone is not a credible witness is a) if they keep changing the story or b) someone can prove they are lying.

PlayingHardball

bt1-I can't answer your questions about your situation, but its all very interesting, what you've gone through, and that it still isn't over yet!

Can I ask, had you/are you financially supporting your child anyway on a part time salary, as I note you are self-employed?

And, what is the next tribunal in relation to next month? I'm confused. Are they still unsure about the arrears? Sorry for all the questions, but I will be going through the Tribunal process shortly and your story hasn't exactly given me confidence that they'll do any better then the CSA

bdt1

Playhardball, in answer to your 1st question, yes I am paying regular maintenance, not the £800+ that they are unrealistically asking for each month, but a figure as negotiated with Enforcement until appeal is sorted.

The Tribunal next month is an appeal that I asked for in relation to incorrect CM assessments after the 2005 Tribunal hearing. In a nutshell after the 2005 Tribunal when PWC tried 'lifestyle iconsistent with declared earnings', and lost her case, she enlisted CSA Criminal Compliance. They copied 2 sets of my bank accounts, 1st my business accounts and saw 30k had gone inover a 28 month period, so they took all those credits as profitable income, totally disregarding my tax returns, business accounts and all business receipts to show business costs. So, they then looked at joint account I have with my wife, used for day to day family stuff, they saw 72k had gone into this account over same 28 month period, so they deducted my wife's salary and said remaining 42k was also my profitable income. They added my profitable income(1) £30k to my profitable income (2) £42k and assessed me on earnng 72k over 28 month period.

What they didn't do was study the bank statements to see that in the joint account the remaining £42k was CSA money paid to my wife from her 1st hubs for their 2 d/s, child benefit for the 3(then4) children inour household, surrender of an insurance policy in my wife name only and also my wife's monthly reimbursement of business expenses - we have evidence of this!!!There was no income that should have been used as mine from that account.

So, the business account they said was 30k I earned in 28 month period, yet again, I have proof of my business expenditure (my van hire is £308 per month).
On top of that in the assessment they used housing costs from a house I hadn't lived infor many years, despite me having proof I sent CSA updated mortgage details, and they also said there were no children in my household (there are 4), nor did I have a partner (wife and I been together 16 years). So they made 'new' assessment in 2007, and then backdated it 2 a further 3 assessment dates as far back as 2004 then said I owe 34k arrears, got a LO, CCJ, charge on house for this 34k arrears??????????? Mad or what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bdt1

Playhardball, sorry also meant to add,, when in 2007 originally received notification of 'new' assessment no-one for many months in CSA could tell me how they calculated it - not even CSA Officer at Magistrate Court for LO Hearing! When I received DP File, this is when it all became apparent, I sent letters with copies of bank statements, statement from child benefit office, letter from wife's employer listing her business expense reimbursements, statement from CSA for wife's monies from 1st hubs, and insurance letter stating cheque for £....... in wife's name only for policy surrender. Very strange but on 2 occasions CSA 'lost' this information, 2nd time it went missing in Enforcement (of course it would - they are paid incentives on arrears monies recovered!!!!!!!!!!). I contacted ICO who investigated CSA on my behalf, and summised CSA in my case have breached 6th and 7th Principles of Data Protection Act!!!!!!!!!!

Doesn't stop the PWC mithering on tho, asking when she gonna get her 34k!!!Truth is, I will lose our home if this doesn't get sorted, that is my house, that of my wife and the 4 children in it

PlayingHardball

Very very scary. I hope the appeal will sort it all out. Good luck and I hope it gets sorted once and for all.