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[Deleted User]

Thanks CIS - this is very useful.

My friend is anxious to get everything up date and to pay what he owes, but can't afford to pay for periods when he wasn't living there. His daughter has been working as a holiday rep and so - was out of the country for periods of time and then back at the flat. My friend had been letting the flat for periods when his daughter was not there. In retrospect, it's not surprising that these tenants had not been paying council tax - even though he made it clear that it was their responsibility - as he has since discovered that apart from rent, they were not paying anything - in fact some had bought goods on credit and he has had many demands from debt recovery agencies.
He has been very honest with the LA about who was living there. I have drawn up a detailed table of the period in question and sent it to the LA, which has prompted their request for tenancy agreements, etc. I understand that they want to be sure they billing the right people. Without that evidence, they have no proof that he wasn't living there all along. I have tried to make the complicated series of people moving in and out as easy for the LA to understand as possible.

However, if his tenancy agreements are clear that the tenants are responsible for Council Tax, does he still have to pay Court Costs?

I understand though that unless the LA knew that someone other than my friend was living there, they could only bill and send court costs to my friend and so it is likely that the tenants never recieved bills or court summons.

CIS

However, if his tenancy agreements are clear that the tenants are responsible for Council Tax, does he still have to pay Court Costs?

Probably not. Most local authorities wouldn't pursue these costs.

They could pursue costs incurred for any period where he is liable, even if he is exempt or due a discount for that period.

However, if his tenancy agreements are clear that the tenants are responsible for Council Tax

Irrespective of what a tenancy agreement says the legilsation determines who is liable for Council Tax. Providing that they are standard tenancy agreements then the legislation will find that the tenants are liable but if they fall under the regs covering House in Multiple Occupation then the landlord remains liable.
http://www.newcastle.gov.uk/core.nsf/a/ctwhohastopay#hmo

[Deleted User]

Irrespective of what a tenancy agreement says the legilsation determines who is liable for Council Tax. Providing that they are standard tenancy agreements then the legislation will find that the tenants are liable but if they fall under the regs covering House in Multiple Occupation then the landlord remains liable.

Thanks so much for this. The flat is a block of purpose built block. There are council tenants and leaseholders of ex-council flats.

CIS

Where the tenants on a standard joint tenancy ? e.g they didn't just rent a room in the flat or pay rent only for their own room .

Johnnybroke

Hi everyone, apologies if this is the wrong bit to post on, I'm new and in a right quandry.

In March we sought help from Payplan due to a change in circumstances making it impossible to meet our monthly debt repayments. Since then things have gone from bad to worse.

In short we now have 28 days to pay £16,000 to Natwest's solicitors due to Payplan not sending our admossion slip in time in response to the first CCJ letter.

To add to the confusion our justabank statement shows Natwests solicitors as having accepted our arrangement.

We also see a seperate amount of £10,000 owed to said solicitors and marked as pending. We think this might be our £2000 o/d. Could this have gained £8,000 in 4 months?

Massive mess. Please help.

[Deleted User]

CIS wrote: »

Where the tenants on a standard joint tenancy ? e.g they didn't just rent a room in the flat or pay rent only for their own room .

Yes - most of the time there was only one tenant in the flat at a time. When there were more, they rented the flat as a group. When my friend moved back into his flat a few weeks ago, his daughter was living there and then she got her own flat and moved out on 10th July. So there were two people there together for only a month. I'll try to send you a private message with the table I've made - in the hope it makes sense.

[Deleted User]

CIS wrote: »

Where the tenants on a standard joint tenancy ? e.g they didn't just rent a room in the flat or pay rent only for their own room .

This is really useful information.

I've tried to insert the table I've made but it won't insert or else loses all the formatting.

The same thing happens in private message.

But what I did was to go through the demands which date back to 2006 and work out with my friend - from the tenancy agreements and his movements - who lived where and when.

My friend can't do this easily as he is dyslexic.

He has had a chaotic time up until he managed to find a more secure job, and get his life under control.

He realises that he may not have been as vigilant as he should have been in informing the council who was living in the flat when tenants or his daughter moved in and out.

As long as he can show who was living in the flat and when, do the LA have the right to demand to know where he was living?

He doesn't want to get his unstable ex-girlfriend into trouble.

CIS

As long as he can show who was living in the flat and when, do the LA have the right to demand to know where he was living?

Thats another area that can be funny. They have the right to ask for enough information to determine who is liable however they also have to be provided with enough proof to show that tenants were in the property, if they are not satified that a tenant should be liable then they will bill the owner who is then responsible for proving he was not resident.

They can serve formal notice to provide information:

Information from residents, etc.
3.—(1) A person who appears to a billing authority to be a resident, owner or managing agent of a particular dwelling shall supply to the authority such information as fulfils the following conditions—

• (a) it is in the possession or control of the person concerned;

• (b) the authority requests (by notice given in writing) the person concerned to supply it; and

• (c) it is requested by the authority for the purposes of identifying the person who, in respect of any period specified in the notice, is the liable person in relation to the dwelling.

(2) A person on whom such a notice as is mentioned in paragraph (1) is served shall supply the information so requested—

• (a) within the period of 21 days beginning on the day on which the notice was served; and

• (b) if the authority so requires, in the form specified in the request.

(3) In paragraph (1)—

• (a) "managing agent" means any person authorised to arrange lettings of the dwelling concerned; and

• (b) the reference to the liable person is a reference to a person who is liable (whether solely or jointly and severally) to pay to a billing authority, in respect of a particular dwelling, an amount in respect of council tax; and includes a reference to a person who in the opinion of the authority will be so liable

[Deleted User]

Thank you for the time you have spent on this, CIS.

This is what I put in my table for the LA - It's very confusing - but he has tenancy agreements for the two tenants Mr A and Mr TA and he can get a letter from his daughter and plenty of evidence of when she lived there. When Mr A lived there it was he and his partner plus another couple.

My friend thought it best to put everything down in the table with a general idea of what he may owe and then hope they can make sense of it.

Occupancy from 2006-2011

Dates: 01.10.2006-31.03.2007
Occupant: Tenant, Mr A, with others: 01.10.2006-27.11.2006
Occupant: Mr. D (Landlord): 27.11.2006-31.03.07
Unemployed Single Person Discount
Payable by others: Mr A £140.44 £77.00-Court costs
Payable by Mr. D (Landlord): 0 (They have proof that he was living there and unemployed)

Dates: 01.04.2007-31.03.2008
Occupant: Mr. D (Landlord): 01.04.2007-31.03.2008
Unemployed Single Person Discount
Payable by Mr. D (Landlord): £432.45

Dates: 01.04.2008-31.03.2009
Occupant: Tenant, Mr.T A: 01.04.2008-31.03.2009
Single Person Discount
Payable by others: Mr T A £742.50

Dates: 01.04.2009-31.03.2010
Occupant: Tenant, Mr.T A: 01.04.2009-01.10.2010
Single Person Discount
Payable by others: Mr T A £437.43
Occupant: Ms D (landlord’s daughter): 01.10.2009-31.03.2009
Single Person Discount
Payable by others: Ms D (landlord’s daughter) £437.43

Dates: *01.04.2010-31.03.2011
Occupant: Ms D (landlord’s daughter): 01.04.2010–10.07.2010
Single Person Discount
Payable by others: Ms D (landlord’s daughter): Approx £437.43
Occupant: Mr. D (Landlord) moved in 06.06.2010
Ms D(landlord’s daughter) moves out 10.07.2010
2 people: 06.06.2010-10.07.2010
Occupant: Mr. D (Landlord) Single Person Discount: 01.10.2009-06.06.2010
Payable by Mr. D (Landlord): Approx £437.43

*01.04.2010-31.03.2011

Ms D (landlord’s daughter)- Living on her own in the property from 01.04.2010 until 06.06.2010, on which date Mr. D (Landlord) moves in.
On 10.07.2010, Ms D (landlord’s daughter)moves out.
From 11.07.2010, Mr. D (Landlord) is living in the property on his own.

So single person discount applies for Ms D (landlord’s daughter)from: 01.04.2010–10.07.2010
Mr. D (Landlord) pays standard charge from 06.06.2010 – 10.07.2010
Mr. D (Landlord) has single person discount from 11.07.2010 – 31,03.2011

CIS

Dates: 01.10.2006-31.03.2007
Occupant: Tenant, Mr A, with others: 01.10.2006-27.11.2006
Occupant: Mr. D (Landlord): 27.11.2006-31.03.07
Unemployed Single Person Discount
Payable by others: Mr A £140.44 £77.00-Court costs
Payable by Mr. D (Landlord): 0 (They have proof that he was living there and unemployed)

I would make it clearer,like this :

Dates: 01.10.2006-31.03.2007
01.10.2006-27.11.2006
Occupant: Tenant, Mr A, with others:

27.11.2006-31.03.07
Occupant: Mr. D (Landlord):
Unemployed Single Person Discount

Dates: 01.04.2010-31.03.2011
01.04.2010–05.06.2010
Occupant: Ms D (landlord’s daughter):
Single Person Discount

06.06.2010-09.07.2010
Occupant: Mr. D (Landlord):
Occupant: Ms D (landlord’s daughter):

10.07.2010 - 31.03.2011
Occupant: Mr. D (Landlord):
Single Person Discount