Buying House with no Building Control Approvals

Odie_Schmodie

Hi, I'm in the process of buying a Victorian terrace, which is in very pleasant condition in terms of appearances. We agreed on a sale price of 166K. It is a three bedroom, but one of the things that I really liked about the place was the converted loft (with proper stairs etc.) which they are using as a study. I realized this wasn't a bedroom but still calculated into my final offer as I thought I too would use it as a study. Some other structural work has been done in the house: new double glazing windows have been put in and an internall wall has been removed between the two reception rooms. Although things appear to be in good condition, there are no building control approvals for any of this. Vendors only mention the loft space in the HIP and they say "no permits were needed." (which now they admit isn't the case and taht they just never applied. They do have the calculations, but the company taht did them doesn't answer phone calls at the number indicated at the letterhead.)

My valuation and homebuyers surveys have both come back valuing the property at 165. The valuation took off 1000 for a damp and timber inspection, noting some condensation. This report says "it is assumed the wall removal was done according to regs. We know the loft conversion doesnt have approvals, the price has been calculated accordingly. I was hoping the Homebuyers survey would give me the peace of mind I need but it says "converted loft space adds to this property, but it doesn't have approval." It also notes that neither the structure of teh loft or the wall removal could be properly ascertained as there is too much that's inaccessible/under plaster, but that "no signs of defect were seen."

No paperwork for the loft conversion (though technically this isn't listed as part of the property), for the windows or for the wall removal, my solicitor said this could create serious problems when selling in on (I am likely to move again within two years) and insisted I have a structural engineer do the checks to certify the work is of standards that would have passed approval -- and ideally get retrospective approval. When I asked him not for official advice but his opinion based on experience he suggested failing getting this additional inspection done, I drop the price substantially. I also talked to a structural engineer in detail. Following their suggestions I have now offered either some additional reports or a price of 160K. Is this hugely unreasonable? I know that I would definitely try and get the necessary approvals after I move in if I don't have them before, and so the new price should reflect the risk that none of the works above are of the necessary standard.

Any feedback is HUGELY appreciated, as I am on my own and I don't really have any family/friends who can advise! Thank you!

hazybubbles

I would ask the vendor to get the approvals needed. What would you do once you moved in if you applied for them and they weren't granted? That would put you in an extremely difficult situation for selling later on as you have already stated you likely will need to.

GoToGal

Agree with hazybubbles, no point taking on a risk you don't need to especially if you will moving on in 2 years.

Lynn11

The seller should get the necessary building paperwork which may be a letter of comfort from the council (Scotland) to say that they are happy with the work carried out and it is to a decent standard. If the seller do not get the correct paperwork before you buy the property, I believe that you will have to pay for letter of comfort to be issued and if there are any problems you will be liable. They can ask you to put back to original if they do not agree with the alternations. I would walk away if the sellers are not prepared to get the necessary paperwork.

timmyt

Odie_Schmodie wrote: »

Hi, I'm in the process of buying a Victorian terrace, which is in very pleasant condition in terms of appearances. We agreed on a sale price of 166K. It is a three bedroom, but one of the things that I really liked about the place was the converted loft (with proper stairs etc.) which they are using as a study. I realized this wasn't a bedroom but still calculated into my final offer as I thought I too would use it as a study. Some other structural work has been done in the house: new double glazing windows have been put in and an internall wall has been removed between the two reception rooms. Although things appear to be in good condition, there are no building control approvals for any of this. Vendors only mention the loft space in the HIP and they say "no permits were needed." (which now they admit isn't the case and taht they just never applied. They do have the calculations, but the company taht did them doesn't answer phone calls at the number indicated at the letterhead.)

My valuation and homebuyers surveys have both come back valuing the property at 165. The valuation took off 1000 for a damp and timber inspection, noting some condensation. This report says "it is assumed the wall removal was done according to regs. We know the loft conversion doesnt have approvals, the price has been calculated accordingly. I was hoping the Homebuyers survey would give me the peace of mind I need but it says "converted loft space adds to this property, but it doesn't have approval." It also notes that neither the structure of teh loft or the wall removal could be properly ascertained as there is too much that's inaccessible/under plaster, but that "no signs of defect were seen."

No paperwork for the loft conversion (though technically this isn't listed as part of the property), for the windows or for the wall removal, my solicitor said this could create serious problems when selling in on (I am likely to move again within two years) and insisted I have a structural engineer do the checks to certify the work is of standards that would have passed approval -- and ideally get retrospective approval. When I asked him not for official advice but his opinion based on experience he suggested failing getting this additional inspection done, I drop the price substantially. I also talked to a structural engineer in detail. Following their suggestions I have now offered either some additional reports or a price of 160K. Is this hugely unreasonable? I know that I would definitely try and get the necessary approvals after I move in if I don't have them before, and so the new price should reflect the risk that none of the works above are of the necessary standard.

Any feedback is HUGELY appreciated, as I am on my own and I don't really have any family/friends who can advise! Thank you!

get the seller to get the consents now, otherwise can of worms...see it quite often as a conveyancing lawyer.

or the seller will just throw indemnity insurance at ou, as after all, if over 12 months old and sound structurally, no loss to you.

Odie_Schmodie

Hi and thanks to everyone for this. I think the vendor (also encouraged by the EA) is of the opinion that an indemnity insurance will take care of all of this. But that won't tell me anything about the structural soundness/safety of the works, right? I am not concerned with the council to be honest, but I do fear that lack of paperwork would be a sticking point if and when I tried to sell on, and so I don't want to be the sucker who got talked into thinking "it's no big deal, it happens all the time"! Thank you!

silvercar

So what bothers you? The lack of knowledge that it is safe? Then get the sellers to pay for a structural engineer to report on it. The lack of certificates? Then get an indemnity insurance.

If both bother you then do both, that will give you peace of mind for the next sale.

RLH33

Odie_Schmodie wrote: »

Hi and thanks to everyone for this. I think the vendor (also encouraged by the EA) is of the opinion that an indemnity insurance will take care of all of this. But that won't tell me anything about the structural soundness/safety of the works, right? I am not concerned with the council to be honest, but I do fear that lack of paperwork would be a sticking point if and when I tried to sell on, and so I don't want to be the sucker who got talked into thinking "it's no big deal, it happens all the time"! Thank you!

You are right - the indemnity will do nothing to reassure you about the structural stability of the loft conversion. Loft conversions are not simple - they have to be done properly with structural supports etc etc. Why didn't the builders or the owners get approval? Were they worried that they were doing it wrong? Any builder worth their salt would get building regs sorted out as they have nothing to hide. What happens if problems start to appear once you have moved in - who is going to pay for them to be rectified? You of course!

Again I think you are right to be cautious about being talked into something that comes back to haunt you when you yourself come to sell it on - make it their problem - get them to sort it out now.